FLX S48 as backup to a full FLX

[Davidmk]

I'm thinking of acquiring an S48 as backup to my FLX but I've got a couple of questions...

Regarding the 96 fixture limit. I have a number of channels with more than one fixture (with different DMX addresses) patched to them. Does the limit apply to channels or patched fixtures?

Regarding the playback limit. My default show has a lot of playbacks that I trigger with MIDI notes and these have to start at PB1. Obviously I wouldn't be able to use these but I would need to load this show and get pages 8 & 9 of the FLX playbacks mapped to pages on the S48. Can this be done and how does it work?

Anybody think of anything else that could trip me up?

Also, if anyone has an S48 they want to sell could they message me with a price and their location?

[kgallen]

Pretty sure it's limited by channel count, ie. 512 for 1 universe, 1024 for 2.

And then on the FLX S, because you don't have syntax you use the flash buttons for channel selection, so you can't access more than 48/96 fixtures.

...and can FLX S actually be used for live tracking FLX backup? i.e. is that feature supported on FLX S? Unless you meant "backup" in the sense of another physical desk you could swap in rather than as an active tracking backup... (Probably you did, I'm over reading into it...!)

[Edward Z88]

Hi David,

21 minutes ago, Davidmk said:

I'm thinking of acquiring an S48 as backup to my FLX but I've got a couple of questions...

Sounds good. I have updated this topic title to "S48" rather than "S24" to avoid confusion.

18 minutes ago, Davidmk said:

Regarding the 96 fixture limit. I have a number of channels with more than one fixture (with different DMX addresses) patched to them. Does the limit apply to channels or patched fixtures?

Any DMX channels that you are using, will eat into your channel limit. So patching 1 dimmer channel, with an additional address configured, would use 1 of your 96 fixtures, and 2 of your 512/1024 DMX channels.

19 minutes ago, Davidmk said:

Regarding the playback limit. My default show has a lot of playbacks that I trigger with MIDI notes and these have to start at PB1. Obviously I wouldn't be able to use these but I would need to load this show and get pages 8 & 9 of the FLX playbacks mapped to pages on the S48. Can this be done and how does it work?

To do this, firstly save a copy of your show file to a USB drive. You'd then need to delete all the playbacks you don't want to access on your FLX S48, and move the playbacks you do want to access to playbacks 1 - 96. You could then save the show file to USB, and load it into FLX S48. You could then load the original show file back into the FLX. For clarity, FLX S consoles do not feature a MIDI input.

23 minutes ago, Davidmk said:

Anybody think of anything else that could trip me up?

UDKs will not be loaded, and palettes greater than number 96 for each attribute will not be loaded. Total DMX addresses and fixture count are the main thing to bear in mind.

13 minutes ago, kgallen said:

...and can FLX S actually be used for live tracking FLX backup? i.e. is that feature supported on FLX S? Unless you meant "backup" in the sense of another physical desk you could swap in rather than as an active tracking backup... (Probably you did, I'm over reading into it...!)

Yes worth clarifying - FLX S consoles do not support the Tracking Backup protocol that is available on FLX and other ZerOS consoles. So a FLX S could not automatically take over control of the show, should your FLX go offline.

Edward

[Davidmk]

1 hour ago, Edward Z88 said:

I have updated this topic title to "S48" rather than "S24" to avoid confusion.

Doh! Thanks

2 hours ago, kgallen said:

another physical desk you could swap in

That was the intention

Bit of background...

I'm looking for a backup solution because I made my FLX hang in the middle of a show on Saturday. First time I've had the problem and I don't know what I did immediately prior so can't make a useful report. Plus I'm a few versions behind (still on the old showfile format).

The FLX was still sending DMX so I got out of it by powering up the house ETC, programming something similar to what was on stage and then quickly swapping the XLR from one desk to the other, restarting the FLX and swapping back.

I've obtained a DMX merger with backup mode and my DMX tester can record & replay a scene so I've changed the setup on my desk to send U1 on both outputs and, if it happens again, I can record the current output from the 2nd output, set the tester to replay it and then disconnect & restart the FLX. With the FLX restarted I can then set up the same output and reconnect it.

That's all a bit clunky and what if the FLX doesn't come back? Hence the interest in having a backup desk, it'd be handy too if the FLX ever needs to go in for repair.

However, from the replies, it would seem that only another FLX would make a satisfactory backup so I guess I'd better start looking for a used example at an attractive price. Bit annoyed though, there was one on eBay last week, gone now.

Thanks both for your input though, saved me from a bad decision.

[Ed75]

15 hours ago, kgallen said:

 

And then on the FLX S, because you don't have syntax you use the flash buttons for channel selection, so you can't access more than 48/96 fixtures.

 

Sorry, I do not totally agree with you. With an external keyboard attached you have a fair bit of syntax on FLX S. I can select fixtures by typing numbers and press enter. Also with use of 'thru' . 

I customized a keyboard for this, showing all shortcuts on the keys according to the FLX S48 manual  :

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/shortcuts/keyboard-shortcuts

with an external monitor attached (FLX S48) you have the blue syntax line on the bottom of  your cue list window. 

 

[Edward Z88]

Hi David,

13 hours ago, Davidmk said:

I'm looking for a backup solution because I made my FLX hang in the middle of a show on Saturday. First time I've had the problem and I don't know what I did immediately prior so can't make a useful report. Plus I'm a few versions behind (still on the old showfile format).

Sorry to hear this. Once your show run has completed, I would recommend updating your console's software.

13 hours ago, Davidmk said:

I've obtained a DMX merger with backup mode and my DMX tester can record & replay a scene so I've changed the setup on my desk to send U1 on both outputs and, if it happens again, I can record the current output from the 2nd output, set the tester to replay it and then disconnect & restart the FLX. With the FLX restarted I can then set up the same output and reconnect it.

That's all a bit clunky and what if the FLX doesn't come back? Hence the interest in having a backup desk, it'd be handy too if the FLX ever needs to go in for repair.

If you can't get your hands on another FLX within your budget, it might be worth shopping around and seeing what price you could get for a 4-universe ZerOS Server...

https://zero88.com/control/server

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Edward

[Davidmk]

15 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

You'd then need to delete all the playbacks you don't want to access on your FLX S48, and move the playbacks you do want to access to playbacks 1 - 96.

Perhaps, when you are looking at partial load you could look at some way to select what gets left out when transferring a show from FLX to FLX S. We've also discussed making the MIDI notes start selectable rather than fixed at PB1.

[DALX]

Are your fixtures set to retain current state if loss of DMX occurs ? I have had desks lock up on occasions, I unplug the DMX out cable, restart the desk, go back to the current cue, plug in the DMX cable and the patrons are not aware of the lockup. Does not work at venues where loss of DMX results in a blackout !

[Davidmk]

3 hours ago, DALX said:

Are your fixtures set to retain current state if loss of DMX occurs ?

Some are, others are not. In particular, one group of LEDs starts strobing if they lose DMX. I can't change settings, other people use the rig and a different desk so changes are down to the technical manager. I have a partial solution that will maintain the state while I restart and I'm working to improve that.

I'd be pretty stuck if the desk didn't come back. I could fall back onto the house desk but it would take a while to program it before I could use it. I should really prepare an ETC showfile with the basics already in place. Away from my usual venue I have no fallback but I guess that's the position for most people. Perhaps I should look at a PC solution - Phantom ZOS or something else.

[Tassal]

I used my FLX S48 last weekend for the first time in 20 months and I was concerned about the desk freezing which it has done a couple of times in the two years since I bought it so I fed through my old DA converter (I went fully digital over all the lockdowns) which has a DMX hold facility. This gave me a bit of peace of mind.

[Davidmk]

Similar, I've acquired a merger to make the switch to a scene recorded on my tester and I'm adding a splitter with a hold facility.

Idea being the splitter gives the signal to the tester (so I can record the walk-in state) but also holds the current state. If I have to go to interval or end show I can just set the tester to send and it should all happen without swapping plugs.

Might be overkill, might never happen again but it's peace of mind.

[Edward Z88]

Hi @Tassal

Welcome to the Zero 88 Forum. 

4 hours ago, Tassal said:

I used my FLX S48 last weekend for the first time in 20 months

Glad to hear your console is back in use again. 

4 hours ago, Tassal said:

I was concerned about the desk freezing which it has done a couple of times in the two years since I bought it

Sorry to hear this. Would you happen to know what software version your console was running? Feel free to send me an email if you’d like to explore this further.

4 hours ago, Davidmk said:

Might be overkill, might never happen again but it's peace of mind.

That’s exactly it - most people that get ZerOS Servers buy them hoping they’ll never need them, but it’s nice to know it’s there just in case!

Edward