Broken hyperlinks in ZerOS Manual

[kgallen]

Probably due to the Vari-Lite move.

This page: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/z-key/z-encoders

This link: Click here for more information on using the Intensity Wheel

This result: 404 Page Not Found (URL is: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/intensity/encoder-wheel)

Possibly other links in the online manual are broken to for the same reason, could you please check and fix.

(ETA: On the same page, link "See Chase Settings for more information." works ok!)

Thanks! 🙂

[kgallen]

Wrong thread really but as I'm here...

Is there a syntax equivalent of using the Intensity Wheel for a relative nudge? Something like 1 THRU 10 @-50 that takes channels 1-10 down 50% of their current value? Or 1 THRU 6 @+20 takes them 20% up relative. That's what I was looking for in the manual but didn't find it.

[Edward Z88]

14 minutes ago, kgallen said:

This page: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/z-key/z-encoders

This link: Click here for more information on using the Intensity Wheel

This result: 404 Page Not Found (URL is: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/intensity/encoder-wheel)

Good spot! Fixed.

14 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Probably due to the Vari-Lite move.

This actually got broken back in November 2021, when the "Intensity" chapter of the manual was merged with "Selection", to become "Selection & Intensity"...

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity

[kgallen]

Ah, answered... https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity/commands#scaling

Would be good if a search of "relative" found that or it was linked from the Encoders->Intensity subsection.

Also whilst I'm moaning about Search again, I selected FLX as the product and Search gave me results in Solution (amongst others).

[Edward Z88]

8 minutes ago, kgallen said:

was linked from the Encoders->Intensity subsection.

Within the Z Key chapter?

[kgallen]

23 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

Within the Z Key chapter?

On this page: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/z-key/z-encoders

It talks about using the Intensity Wheel to do a relative adjustment. The terminology used is: "This intensity adjustment is relative"

This section should link to the syntax that provides the same function, on this page: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity/commands#scaling The terminology used is: "SCALING SYNTAX"

The terminology needs aligning. With the wheel the terminology uses "relative" (which was the search term I used). For syntax the terminology uses "scaling". Hence I didn't find the manpage with the syntax I was looking for since the term "scaling" was used instead of "relative".

[Edward Z88]

20 minutes ago, kgallen said:

On this page: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/z-key/z-encoders

It talks about using the Intensity Wheel to do a relative adjustment. The terminology used is: "This intensity adjustment is relative"

This section should link to the syntax that provides the same function, on this page: https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity/commands#scaling The terminology used is: "SCALING SYNTAX"

The terminology needs aligning. With the wheel the terminology uses "relative" (which was the search term I used). For syntax the terminology uses "scaling". Hence I didn't find the manpage with the syntax I was looking for since the term "scaling" was used instead of "relative".

The Intensity Wheel and Scaling Syntax do not work in the same way. The intensity wheel adjusts values relative to one another. Scaling syntax scales.

For example:

• Set fixture 1 to 100%, and fixture 2 to 50%. Dial the intensity encoder down to 50%. Fixture 1 is @ 50%, and fixture 2 is @ 0%. The intensity wheel has taken the value of the fixtures down by the same amount.
• Set fixture 1 to 100%, and fixture 2 to 50%. @ - 50 ENTER. Fixture 1 is @ 50%, and fixture 2 is @ 25%. The syntax has taken the intensities down 50%.

[kgallen]

14 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

The Intensity Wheel and Scaling Syntax do not work in the same way. The intensity wheel adjusts values relative to one another. Scaling syntax scales.

For example:

• Set fixture 1 to 100%, and fixture 2 to 50%. Dial the intensity encoder down to 50%. Fixture 1 is @ 50%, and fixture 2 is @ 0%. The intensity wheel has taken the value of the fixtures down by the same amount.
• Set fixture 1 to 100%, and fixture 2 to 50%. @ - 50 ENTER. Fixture 1 is @ 50%, and fixture 2 is @ 25%. The syntax has taken the intensities down 50%.

Ohhhh.... so FLX S users can't do "scaling" then, only "relative"?

Why the two different mechanisms - was this deliberately and knowingly different, or did it just get coded like that and Jon went "(cough) Well that's not what I expected, but I like it (not a lot), but I like it! We'll keep it." (Sorry, old reference there which you might not pick up on given your more tender years! 🤣)

I can see an application for both, but I hadn't clocked they were different as you clearly explain!

But given the relationship, a cross link to "the related feature" would be handy - I suspect "the old guard" (who might have grown up with one or more Strand consoles) would search on "relative" for such a function.

Thanks for the explanation - so I think also the "Z Key" chapter needs an example along the lines of what you've just given and maybe a comment to highlight that the two mechanisms, whilst related, perform different (mathematical) functions and hence why the different terms used of "relative" and "scaling". Slightly confusingly for me the wheel is actually taking the values down by the same *absolute* amount (both by 50 points in your example), I'm not sure there is anything relative in it!

[Jon Hole]

18 minutes ago, kgallen said:

(Sorry, old reference there which you might not pick up on given your more tender years! 🤣)

I was a big fan of Paul Daniels as a kid!

18 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Why the two different mechanisms - was this deliberately and knowingly different

This actually changed in ZerOS 7.10. Before that, the syntax wasn't available on FLX. When we made it available on FLX, we also changed its behaviour to scale. It's all about when we think these two features are most likely to be used:

• The Intensity Wheel is usually used to adjust the intensity of fixtures whilst looking at the stage (when multiple fixtures are selected, they are often all the same intensity). Just like a fader, the wheel can adjust the fixtures down to 0% and up to 100%. Therefore, adjusting the value relative to its current value makes sense. If the intensity wheel scaled based on a fixture's current value, it would be impossible to adjust a fixture at 0% using the intensity wheel!
• Syntax (such as @-20) is most useful to say "I like this scene but make it 20% dimmer" - meaning 20% of their current intensity, not 20% of their maximum intensity.

Info from the ZerOS 7.10 release notes:

[Edward Z88]

20 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Ohhhh.... so FLX S users can't do "scaling" then, only "relative"?

That is correct.

 

27 minutes ago, kgallen said:

But given the relationship, a cross link to "the related feature" would be handy

Added - https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity/intensity-wheel

23 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Slightly confusingly for me the wheel is actually taking the values down by the same *absolute* amount (both by 50 points in your example), I'm not sure there is anything relative in it!

In ZerOS you have "Absolute" and "Relative" encoder control. When you adjust an "Absolute" encoder, the parameter of all the selected fixtures snaps to the level of the first fixture. The encoder then dials all parameter levels up/down together @ the same value. "Relative" encoder control means if you spin an encoder 50 values clockwise, you are "adding" 50 values to whatever the parameters are currently doing, keeping the different parameters "relative" to one another.

[kgallen]

8 minutes ago, Jon Hole said:

• The Intensity Wheel is usually used to adjust the intensity of fixtures whilst looking at the stage (when multiple fixtures are selected, they are often all the same intensity). Just like a fader, the wheel can adjust the fixtures down to 0% and up to 100%. Therefore, adjusting the value relative to its current value makes sense. If the intensity wheel scaled based on a fixture's current value, it would be impossible to adjust a fixture at 0% using the intensity wheel!
• Syntax (such as @-20) is most useful to say "I like this scene but make it 20% dimmer" - meaning 20% of their current intensity, not 20% of their maximum intensity.

Thanks Jon.

I concur with both. I like it (quite a lot...).

I just hadn't appreciated the difference and the manual "relative" and "scaling" didn't clarify that for me (in a clear enough way for my old brain at least!).

[kgallen]

11 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

Added - https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity/intensity-wheel

Thank you!

Being picky...

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity/intensity-wheel "eg each fixture will increase or decrease by a percentage from its original value"

vs

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/selection-and-intensity/commands#scaling "they can also be taken to a defined percentage of the level they're currently at"

As you've explained they are different, so I'm not sure you should be using "percentage" in a comparable context in each section. I think the first one needs to change, something like (but better than) "decrease by the same [absolute] number of points from its original value" (I know you won't want to use [absolute]). The use of percentage in the syntax page is also slightly corrupt since in this context you mean "mathematical scaling" rather than percentage in the way we use for intensity 0% to 100% (which unfortunately is exactly what you do mean in the wheel context! ).

[Edward Z88]

10 minutes ago, kgallen said:

As you've explained they are different, so I'm not sure you should be using "percentage" in a comparable context in each section. I think the first one needs to change, something like (but better than) "decrease by the same [absolute] number of points from its original value" (I know you won't want to use [absolute]).

I've removed the bracketed text completely from the "Intensity Wheel" section, because the example which then follows is more helpful.

10 minutes ago, kgallen said:

The use of percentage in the syntax page is also slightly corrupt since in this context you mean "mathematical scaling" rather than percentage in the way we use for intensity 0% to 100% (which unfortunately is exactly what you do mean in the wheel context! ).

I think I disagree - when you say "@ - 50 ENTER", you are saying "take these lights to 50% of their current level".