Live busking with multiple groups of (RGB) colors that are mixed through faders

[Finn Tegeler]

Hello everyone,
I've been reading the forums for a while but never created a post somewhere.
My name is Finn and I'm mainly running events for a school in Germany. We've been using our FLX S24 happily for the past couple years at all sorts of events.
Most of our shows could be solved with a simple busking showfile so I am looking into creating one that fits all our needs.

Because of that I have a bit of a special question if you will. Mixing RGB colors through faders has been throughly discussed in other posts and even has it's own training video.
I was wondering if it is possible (perhaps through macros) to have a way for mixing multiple groups of colors.

The idea would be to have for example eight RGB fixtures that are separated into two groups (though technically one could create "infinite" color groups).
Fader 1-3 are used for mixing color for group 1 and Fader 4-6 are used for mixing color for group 2.

That of course is entirely possible without any additional work.

My question would now be if it is possible whenever Fader 4-6 are not active for group 2 to automatically follow group 1 (in terms of the color).

As if I want to change the color of all fixtures I just pull down Fader 4-6 and use Fader 1-3 respectively.

I recognize this is definetly more of a special requirement and not the most common usage.
Macros are a thing I've never touched and am slowly getting a hang of it therefor I am unsure if it's helpful in this case.

I am very thankful for any input regarding this quirky concept.

Have a great day

Finn Tegeler

[Davidmk]

I'm pretty sure that this would not work as you envisage and that macros will not help. Group 2's fixture would need to be controlled by both sets of faders and would show whatever level of each colour was set last. Other than long and complex macros that add and remove group 2 in group 1's faders there seems to be no way out of this.

 A far simpler solution might be to arrange your faders by colour rather than group...

Instead of G1-R, G1-G, G1-B, G2-R, G2-G, G2-B

Use G1-R, G2-R, G1-G, G2-G, G1-B, G2-B

That way, when you want 1 & 2 the same you use the pairs of colour faders together at the same level.

PS I have an FLX and use a midi keypad to set all LEDs to one of 13 colour pallettes but I can also set the even number fixtures to a different pallette. This is not possible without the midi inputs of course. It takes 28 buttons & 30 playbacks on pages that are not current to do it but it works pretty well.

If or when OSC becomes available on S24/S48 you could PM me and I'll explain it. Would take too long here.

[Finn Tegeler]

Thank you for your reply.

Arranging the faders by color seems to be the easiest way forward. I appreciate the input.

Then I'll patiently await the software release and maybe that will open up some options
but I would prefer to run without a laptop as I typically do not carry one to most events.

Greetings

~Finn

[Edward Z88]

Hi @Finn Tegeler

Welcome to the Zero 88 Forum.

17 hours ago, Finn Tegeler said:

My question would now be if it is possible whenever Fader 4-6 are not active for group 2 to automatically follow group 1 (in terms of the color).

As if I want to change the color of all fixtures I just pull down Fader 4-6 and use Fader 1-3 respectively.

I recognize this is definetly more of a special requirement and not the most common usage.

This is indeed an interesting use case. As @Davidmk mentions, this behaviour isn't possible.

You could record all 8 fixtures into Faders 1-3, and then just the last 4 fixtures into Faders 4-6, but this wouldn't quite achieve what you're after.

2 hours ago, Davidmk said:

A far simpler solution might be to arrange your faders by colour rather than group...

Instead of G1-R, G1-G, G1-B, G2-R, G2-G, G2-B

Use G1-R, G2-R, G1-G, G2-G, G1-B, G2-B

That way, when you want 1 & 2 the same you use the pairs of colour faders together at the same level.

This is a great workaround - thanks @Davidmk!

[Davidmk]

3 hours ago, Finn Tegeler said:

I would prefer to run without a laptop as I typically do not carry one to most events.

For OSC, you wouldn't need a laptop on site. You would need a tablet/phone iOS or Android and some sort of wireless router which could just be a travel one as long as it has an ethernet connection and WiFi. When I last used OSC you couldn't actually run it on Windows.

[Edward Z88]

13 minutes ago, Davidmk said:

For OSC, you wouldn't need a laptop on site. You would need a tablet/phone iOS or Android and some sort of wireless router which could just be a travel one as long as it has an ethernet connection and WiFi. When I last used OSC you couldn't actually run it on Windows.

OSC is a basic protocol, so any networking device could send it - it would just be a case of finding a suitable software package that can output OSC for your preferred platform.

[Finn Tegeler]

Thanks both of you for the input. 

I will look forward to the release of OSC then.
Typically I carry an iPad with me which I'm sure such software exists for it.

That could be used as David mentioned.

I'll build a showfile now and will test using the multi RGB-faders on Friday.
I feel like they are already a better upgrade from preprogrammed colors.

Have a nice day

~Finn

[phosphene]

As another inverterate busker can I jump into this discussion and ask a naiive question...(the answer may be staring me in the face, but I've missed it.)?

If we set up faders for colour mixing on playbacks (FLX-S 48 in my case) is it possible to assign the channels that are controlled by those faders 'on the fly' live by using groups? (I've only found a way of programming specific channels to the colour controlling faders, which is really the same problem Finn has identified.. ie three or four faders used up by each 'group' of fixtures.)

Came on here to ask a different but related question though:

While tidying up our desk I've hit a snag with these colour mixing playbacks. Normally, (and on PhantomZerOS using exactly the same full showfile as the real desk) you select a channel and get RGBW above the encoders in the LCD display, and work from there. Our desk now gives 'CTemp 0' and CMacro 0 No Function' above the first two encoders and blank boxes above the remaining two.  Anyone suggest a way to return this to normal? What have I inadvertently re-set?

Cliff 

[Edward Z88]

Hi @phosphene

15 minutes ago, phosphene said:

is it possible to assign the channels that are controlled by those faders 'on the fly' live by using groups?

Short answer: No. When you use groups to select fixtures and record cues, ZerOS does not remember which group was used to create the cue. Instead ZerOS stores the fixtures themselves.

As a side note, if you double tap a group, you recall the intensity information that was present when recording the group. If you then record a cue, the cue will not store raw intensity levels for these lights. Instead, it will record a reference to the intensity values stored in the group. If you update the intensities in the group, all cues that used that group will be updated with the new intensity levels.

15 minutes ago, phosphene said:

ur desk now gives 'CTemp 0' and CMacro 0 No Function' above the first two encoders and blank boxes above the remaining two.  Anyone suggest a way to return this to normal? What have I inadvertently re-set?

With your fixtures selected, tap the "Colour" tab at the top of the touchscreen again. Each tap of colour will page you through the selected fixture's various colour parameters, until you cycle back to the beginning.

Hope this helps.

[phosphene]

Thanks Edward. That worked! Encyclopedic font of knowledge as ever!

Cliff

[Davidmk]

4 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

When you use groups to select fixtures and record cues, ZerOS does not remember which group was used to create the cue. Instead ZerOS stores the fixtures themselves.

A behaviour which seems at odds with the way pallettes work, especially when you consider that they are acting a bit like intensity pallettes. Buskers and tourers might be quite pleased if there was some sort of selection pallette referenced by cues. Just saying.

[Davidmk]

On 3/23/2023 at 9:30 AM, Davidmk said:

If or when OSC becomes available on S24/S48 you could PM me and I'll explain it. Would take too long here.

@Finn Tegeler OSC is going to be available in the next release which is in Beta test right now. I've opened a thread to talk about what people want to do with OSC here if you want to see what I'm doing but, frankly, it might be better to wait until V7.14 has been released and I've got OSC sussed. I'll be happy to share whatever I've worked out then. Meanwhile the OSC thread is for people to suggest what they'd like to do with it.