Possible hardware issue, Fader 5 affecting fader 19

[keredyelesob]

one of my reliable FLX consoles has started to show signs of old age and may need some TLC, I remember on the frog range the faders where connected electrically and the processor could get confusing signals when a fader had dirt in or was faulty. I assume this may be the same with FLX but I cant find the old posts regarding how to diagnose and fix.

My problem is fader 5 also has an affect on fader 19. (not the other way around, and all other faders seem fine), when I raise fader 5 it also shows fader 19 raise to about 40% max, this happens both when they are channel faders or sub-masters. I have a wing so was going to try plugging the wing in to see if the same happens but I think it may be the hardware showing its age, Can you suggest the best way of diagnosing and cleaning, I know not to use switch cleaner. if it needs a fader replacement I can do this myself but will need to know where to get the parts from.

Cheers

[KWR88]

Hi

You can access the hardware test mode by booting the desk with the Setup button held until the screen shows an image of the desk front panel.

Once in you can release setup, and from there is you move a fader or press a button it will tell you what you are moving as well as showing the relevant button/fader move on the the display. 

For the faders you should only see a single fader move at a time and you can see the a smooth count from 00 to FF with no big jumps or drops to 0.

If you see any other faders move then they are "dirty" and not reading correctly. 

For these you could try a drop of switch cleaner (something like elector lube) into the fader via the straw and run this up and down a few times to work it in.

Failing that it would be a replacement fader needed. 

feel free to PM me on the address in my sign off if you need any more details.

 

[keredyelesob]

Thanks Keith

The faulty desk is currently out onsite but I will try your suggestions above and let you know the outcome when i get it back.

Regarding cleaning the fader is it more likely to be fader 5 that is the culprit V fader 19. or should I hang on to do the diagnostics?

Thanks

[iank99]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:08 PM, keredyelesob said:

Thanks Keith

The faulty desk is currently out onsite but I will try your suggestions above and let you know the outcome when i get it back.

Regarding cleaning the fader is it more likely to be fader 5 that is the culprit V fader 19. or should I hang on to do the diagnostics?

Thanks

From experience - it might be some dirt on each so a wee squirt of Servisol Super 10 on each won't go amiss then "work" the fader for a couple of strokes to move the dirt off the mucky spot.

Switch cleaner is ok to use but the usual caveats apply - don't use one that leaves a film (so NOT WD40!!!!) and a squirt is of duration less than it takes you to count "one" - any more is wasted.

[keredyelesob]

Hi @KWR88

I have cleaned all of the 24 faders with both elector lube and compressed air but still no joy. Looking at the diagnostic screen it is due to fader 19 not hitting 0 when fully at the bottom (if I nudge it up fractionally the fader reads 0 and the problem has resolved) problem is during a show remembering to nudge the fader won't happen, so I think I will replace the fader in question, if you can point me to where I can get the spares. (Not pcb, just faders as I will desolder the faulty one) that would be greatly appreciated.

Also in the meantime I have swapped the entire fader pcb from one of my wings to the faulty desk so the desk can continue to go out to events. I have noticed the diagnostics does not expand to the faders on the wing. It does however work for the flash buttons. Is there a way to diagnose the wing. Not a huge problem if not as I can test in fixture mode but obviously not as accurate.

 

@iank99 thanks also for your input, all useful info.

Thanks

[iank99]

@keredyelesobthat's "typical" behaviour with a failed fader by the sounds of it - the PCB will need to be put in close proximity with a soldering iron and replacement fader. If you're confident with an iron - you can do it yourself or @KWR88 could recommend a service centre close to you

[keredyelesob]

50 minutes ago, iank99 said:

@keredyelesobthat's "typical" behaviour with a failed fader by the sounds of it - the PCB will need to be put in close proximity with a soldering iron and replacement fader. If you're confident with an iron - you can do it yourself or @KWR88 could recommend a service centre close to you

Ye my thoughts exactly. Like I say I swapt the fader pcb with one of my wings so I could have the desk up and running ASAP. Now I just need to replace the fader and I can put the wing back together. I would rather get the official zero88 parts rather than trying parts from Farnell or cpc.

[iank99]

23 hours ago, keredyelesob said:

 I would rather get the official zero88 parts rather than trying parts from Farnell or cpc.

@keredyelesobYour local Zero dealer should be able to help you with parts - the part you want is 1722-000006-00. If they can't help then I keep them in stock :)

[keredyelesob]

2 minutes ago, iank99 said:

the part you want is 1722-000006-00. If they can't help then I keep them in stock

Thanks, I have just text the local dealer. I will DM you if they can't help me. Much appreciated 

[Edward Z88]

Hi @keredyelesob

On 11/15/2021 at 8:29 PM, keredyelesob said:

Also in the meantime I have swapped the entire fader pcb from one of my wings to the faulty desk so the desk can continue to go out to events. I have noticed the diagnostics does not expand to the faders on the wing. It does however work for the flash buttons. Is there a way to diagnose the wing. Not a huge problem if not as I can test in fixture mode but obviously not as accurate.

There is no dedicated Test Mode for the ZerOS Wing. Instead, ZerOS Wing updates will be displayed in Z -> System Information -> Event Monitor.

The faders/buttons on the wing will be numbered 25 - 48.

Hope this helps,

Edward

[keredyelesob]

4 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

ZerOS Wing updates will be displayed in Z -> System Information -> Event Monitor.

Thanks for the info, I will give it ago when I get back to the workbench. 👍

[Uriahdemon]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:48 PM, keredyelesob said:

Thanks for the info, I will give it ago when I get back to the workbench. 👍

Hi, I have a similar issue and am wondering how this played out….. were you able to resolve the issue please ?

[keredyelesob]

On 4/26/2022 at 7:32 PM, Uriahdemon said:

Hi, I have a similar issue and am wondering how this played out….. were you able to resolve the issue please ?

Hi. I ended up replacing the faulty fader on the pcb (only attempt if you are handy with a soldering iron,  the pcb tracks are very fine). I found the faulty fader by putting the desk in test mode. I noticed fader 19 was not hitting 0 this was causing the erroneous behaviour with the other faders. If your getting the same issue first try cleaning the faders with something like ELECTROLUBE  EML200F before swapping out faders. Cleaning has worked in the past for my other desk. Hope this helps.

[kgallen]

8 hours ago, keredyelesob said:

Hi. I ended up replacing the faulty fader on the pcb (only attempt if you are handy with a soldering iron,  the pcb tracks are very fine). I found the faulty fader by putting the desk in test mode. I noticed fader 19 was not hitting 0 this was causing the erroneous behaviour with the other faders. If your getting the same issue first try cleaning the faders with something like ELECTROLUBE  EML200F before swapping out faders. Cleaning has worked in the past for my other desk. Hope this helps.

Hi Derek!
That’s a shame you had to replace the fader. Did you feel at risk of lifting the pads or tracks when you did this? Is there any feedback to give to Zero88 regards the robustness of the pads and traces in respect of service operations like this? I.e. is there enough (but not too much) pad and track mass on the PCB design around the fader pins?

[iank99]

47 minutes ago, kgallen said:

 Is there any feedback to give to Zero88 regards the robustness of the pads and traces in respect of service operations like this? I.e. is there enough (but not too much) pad and track mass on the PCB design around the fader pins?

I've only seen one FLX so far with 'scratchy' faders and some Servisol Super 10 was successful in cleaning them - the other couple of FLX's I've been inside since Christmas, I didn't pay much attention to the fader PCBs but I would suspect that they're no different in size than the Frog & Solution equivalent fader boards (the faders are physically the same).

As always, my advice to folks considering fader change - don't try it yourself unless you're 1. Very confident with a soldering iron 2. Have a decent soldering iron and de-solder tool - that £2.99 soldering iron from Laldl isn't probably the best option and 3. You're very confident in your own use of de-soldering tools.  Yes - 1 & 3 are almost identical but it can't be stressed enough

It's also very worth remembering that if your FLX is still within the 3 year warranty then your local dealer can repair the desk & Zero88 will support them in cost of parts & labour for the repair. If your dealer doesn't want to play ball with a warranty repair - then there are some independent service centres authorised to do warranty repairs too...

Hint: you can contact me via my profile

[kgallen]

...and it's worth adding (although this post might get deleted!), that if you are in the UK south west or South Wales area, Keith can be very obliging if you're not looking for a whole-board rebuild, even outside of the warranty period... Sorry if I overstepped the mark there, but I think it's highly commendable that Zero88 hardware support doesn't actually stop at the 3 year anniversary if you ask nicely. I have personal experience of this excellent service (thanks Keith and Edward!) - my FLX will be '7' this year. (Hopefully the big bosses aren't reading...)

[Jon Hole]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:10 PM, kgallen said:

Hopefully the big bosses aren't reading...

Hopefully they are, they’d love to hear this!