making a playback that is dominate over the others?

[gdrlighting]

Hello!

With modern live rock n roll rigs using LED's only, I am having a hard time keeping a said fixture "no color". For example; PB1 is a 2 color scene Red US, Amber DS. PB2 is just 1 of the DS fixtures no color for say guitar solo. PB3 is a 2 color scene, Green US, Blue DS. PB4 is a 2 color scene, Magenta US, Yellow DS. With PB1 active, raise PB2, you have Red US, Amber DS w/ one DS fixture now no color. When I make PB3 active all DS fixture now goes to Blue, even though PB2 fader is still at full. I guess what I am trying to say is how can I make this one LED fixture stay n/c like I was raising a fader channel for a leko.  Am I wishing for the impossible? Thanks in advance

FYI I am using LeapFrog96 and Solution desks. 

[thierry]

hi,

perhaps i'm wrong and you'll have to wait for Edward's knowledge...

You have to consider that led's fixtures have different behaviour than traditionals fixtures. when you use led's fixtures or automatics fixtures, you must work with "cues" and not with "memories" in several playbacks...

Try to program your sequence of several cues in one submaster (playback) and you'll get what you want...

If you try to work like "the old school" method, it's not always possible to get what you want, using different playback with the same fixtures involved in...

Example : if you really want to mix correctly colors of identical fixtures with different playbacks, you need to make each time a memory with the "primary" color, untagging the other colors.

you record a full blue memory in a playback 1, a full red memory in a playback 2, a full green memory in a playback 3 (with in each playback the other colors untagged), then you'll be able to fully mix your 3 playbacks without any trouble...

But if you want to do something else than my example, then no more memories but cues only, simultaneous dmx command behaviour is okay with "cues" .

I hope that i'm not "offside", if it is, Edward will tell...

[kgallen]

You're experiencing "Latest Takes Precedence" behaviour plus you're recording your other memories with too much information. For example you are recording a memory with your other light settings and including "new" information (like make it red) for the spotlight you want to stay white. Thus when you execute this new memory, your white spotlight gets new information from the memory that says "change to red" - and because that information is "later", then LTP behaviour causes your spot to change.

Regardless if you are creating a cuestack or using individual playbacks with "looks" (or "partial looks") on it, you should read up on tagging - so that you only record into a memory the information you want to change. i.e. you'd not tag your "spot" so it didn't get new information from your other "look" memories.

Other options, although more clunky, but possibly a get-out-of-jail, is to PARK your spot - this stops it being affected by anything. However when you want to change this spot, you need to un-park it first.

Relevant KB articles include:

http://support.zero88.com/Legacy-Products/Legacy-Consoles/Legacy-ZerOS/ORB-XF/1014189311/What-is-Tagging.htm

http://support.zero88.com/Legacy-Products/Legacy-Consoles/Legacy-ZerOS/ORB-XF/975070091/RGB-Colour-Mixing-on-Faders-Changing-Fixture-Defaults.htm

http://support.zero88.com/Legacy-Products/Legacy-Consoles/Legacy-ZerOS/ORB-XF/1011405471/Fader-Controls.htm

http://support.zero88.com/Legacy-Products/Legacy-Consoles/Legacy-ZerOS/ORB-XF/1011403601/What-is-Parking.htm

http://support.zero88.com/Legacy-Products/Legacy-Consoles/Legacy-ZerOS/ORB-XF/1011587771/How-do-I-manually-Release-a-Playback.htm

 

And this jargon series from this Christmas (see HTP, LTP, Tracking, Park, Busking, maybe Inhibit):

 

[Edward Z88]

Hello,

8 hours ago, gdrlighting said:

I guess what I am trying to say is how can I make this one LED fixture stay n/c like I was raising a fader channel for a leko.  Am I wishing for the impossible?

 

1 hour ago, thierry said:

 it's not always possible to get what you want, using different playback with the same fixtures involved in...

 

43 minutes ago, kgallen said:

You're experiencing "Latest Takes Precedence" behaviour plus you're recording your other memories with too much information.

As Kevin and Thierry say, if you have 2 playbacks which have information for the same fixture, whichever you raise most recently controls the fixture, due to Colour, Beam and Position in playbacks mixing Latest Takes Precedence.

As Kevin mentions, for better mixing, don't record whole lighting states on playbacks. Instead of having 2 colour scenes on faders, have lots of single colour scenes you can mix between. As well as achieving better mixing, this also gives you added flexibility of the lighting states you can create.

44 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Relevant KB articles include:

Thanks very much @kgallen for linking to those.

If you have any questions let us know.

Edward

[kgallen]

To clarify we're not saying you should records lots of playbacks with  red, green and blue etc and have to mix from primaries all of the time. More that you record playbacks, with restricted attribute information that you can combine to make more interesting scenes. For example you might have a playback with only spot positions for the musos (only record position). Then you might have another playback that has certain colours (I don't just mean RGB) for those spots (only record colour). You might have another playback that sets all those spots to white. You might have another playback that puts gobos in (only record beamshape). You might have another playback that you use as a "base" that has a certain position, colour and beamshape. You trigger that first, then think, ok I want the gobos in for the backlights - so then push up the playback that only has backlight gobos programmed in. So a given scene might have 3 or 4 playbacks active, with each providing part of the picture.

And of course you should use palettes and do palette referencing so when you move to a new venue, you update your position palettes and all of your position playbacks automatically see and use the updated positions.

Easy to say of course - this takes time to set this up the first time, but potentially gives you more flexibility. When the band add a new song, say some soppy balad, and you need a pink wash, you just create a playback with the pink in it. Then you use that as your "colour component" when mixing on to of your existing position and beamshape playbacks.

It all comes down to recording only certain stuff into a playback, not everything for every fixture.

 

[Mark B]

I see a reference to Parking in this thread in the Solution forum.  Is Parking possible within a Solution desk?  I can't find it discussed anywhere within the manual and haven't stumbled in to it within the software.  We're running 7.9.7.  Thanks!

[Edward Z88]

Hi Mark,

In ZerOS 7.9.7, the INSERT button isn’t used, and so instead can be configured to be a Park/Unpark function. To do this, hold SETUP and press the INSERT button. You can then set the Normal function to be Park, and the Shifted function to be Unpark. 

You can then select a fixture, and press the INSERT button, and it will be parked. You can then hold SHIFT and press INSERT, and selected fixtures will be unparked. For more information see below...

http://support.zero88.com/1011403601

Hope this helps,

Edward

[gdrlighting]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the input! Most of the info in this thread I had read up on and was quite aware of. The park feature is basically the magic bullet that I was looking for but did not know it was available on the LeapFrog / Solution desk. Everything I was finding was for the ORB.

On a side note, the new ability (7.9.7) to have channel faders trigger playbacks is way cool.

[Loran_MDS]

Hi !

I use the 7.9.9 v
I read this post and Thierry's explanations but I don't understand how to untag the colors in the MFF
to save them in my subs (playbacks)
For eg, I just want to record SUB1 with RED, SUB2 with GREEN and SUB3 with BLUE and mix them with my 3 sub(playback) 
but when I record them and use my sub, colors don't mix together but just replace them (Grenn replace green or blue,
 etc...)

However, if I do the same thing by programming my subs via my faders (eg 25 to 27 RGB) and that I record them in my subs
... It works

it seems to be a problem with the recording in my MFF but I don't know how to do it correctly

Thank you

CONFIG solution.zos

[Edward Z88]

Hi @Loran_MDS

Welcome to the Zero 88 Forum.

25 minutes ago, Loran_MDS said:

I use the 7.9.9 v I read this post and Thierry's explanations but I don't understand how to untag the colors in the MFF to save them in my subs (playbacks) For eg, I just want to record SUB1 with RED, SUB2 with GREEN and SUB3 with BLUE and mix them with my 3 sub(playback) but when I record them and use my sub, colors don't mix together but just replace them (Grenn replace green or blue, etc...)

For information on creating RGB colour mixing playbacks, please see the link below...

https://zero88.com/manuals/zeros/cues-playbacks/playing-back-cues/rgb-colour-mixing-on-playbacks

To find out more about tagging, please see the link below...

https://zero88.com/manuals/zeros/controlling-fixtures/tagging

I hope this helps, if you have any questions let me know.

Edward