Inserting memories

[ice]

Don't exactly know if this is already covered, but I wonder why it isn't possible to insert a memory between for instance mem 14 and 14.1.

I've ran into this a few times: and not being able to insert means a load of copying. Inserting a new memory scene should always possible! Just increase the 14.1 to 14.2 and change all jumps and stuff accordingly.

Okay maybe not an easy task but "you cannot insert a memory here" is really the dumbest screen message I've seen until now. The desk has loads of memory and tells me I can't insert a memory at a location!?

Okay another problem would be: 14 to 14.9 are used, and u want to insert at 14.1. Desk asks: all memories taken, create new or split? Split: 14.9 becomes 15 (memories >15 move to +1) and 14.1 is created again. Create new: 14.2 is created, 14.3..14.9 becomes 15..15.5

Those are some solutions to the problem, anyhow: the amount of copying when you want to insert at 14.1 really takes a load of time, and I don't really get why I can't insert a memory at that location.

[K-Nine]

I think the manual is quite clear on this topic, saying that the desk provides the facility to insert up to a maximum of nine point memories between two whole number memories.

 

For the majority of people that is sufficient to handle any memories or cues they may have missed out while plotting the show.

 

What would perhaps be a more useful feature and one that has been mentioned elsewhere recently, is the facility to renumber all the memories in the memory stack, therefore stretching out the memory numbers, giving more space to insert any 'missing' ones

[dougalzeb]

Yes the ability to renumber of the cue list would be very useful indeed. Maybe it could include an 'auto' setting which could be selected should you want all of the cues to be renumbered as sequential whole numbers.

But I do also agree that the ability to have x.x.x (e.g. 1.3.2) cues would be good and add flexibility.

[ice]

Exactly, the .x numbers should be dropped, and a new inserst should automatically increase the rest. Okay, not a simple question, and I know it's covered in the manual, but maybe something to check out for the future desks

[DSA]

Exactly, the .x numbers should be dropped, and a new inserst should automatically increase the rest. Okay, not a simple question, and I know it's covered in the manual, but maybe something to check out for the future desks

I don't agree - if you have plotted, and written the cues in the script it is much easier to add a point cue in - it would take forever to renumber the book each time!

 

Perhaps x.x.x would be useful but to be honest 9 is usually plenty of inserts between 2 subsequent cues!

 

David

[ice]

Ok that would be another option indeed, I've ran into this a couple of times, and it's really VERY annoying when the desk comes up with that error message :twisted:

[dougalzeb]

Exactly, the .x numbers should be dropped, and a new inserst should automatically increase the rest. Okay, not a simple question, and I know it's covered in the manual, but maybe something to check out for the future desks

I don't agree - if you have plotted, and written the cues in the script it is much easier to add a point cue in - it would take forever to renumber the book each time!

 

Perhaps x.x.x would be useful but to be honest 9 is usually plenty of inserts between 2 subsequent cues!

 

David

 

But why not have the flexibility of both methods allowing the insert to either shunt the cue stack along or create the desired point cue? Also it is not the number of inserts allowed that is necessarily the problem as I find nine to be more than plenty (so far) but if I need to add a cue between two states which are already point cues I can't without faffing around copying the existing point cues e.g. cues 23, 23.1, 23.2, 23.4, 23.5 and 23.6 already exist so to insert a cue between 23 and 23.1 I would have to copy each existing point cue up a point making the last one 23.7. This is not only a long winded way of working it also requires several more changes to the book. Also what do i do if (and I realise this is putting forward the worst case scenario) at the point between cues 23.9 and 24 i find the need to insert?

So both the x.x.x method of inserting and the shunting/renumbering system would allow the operator maximum flexibility to deal with whatever situation presents itself. Each method is of value in different instances. :roll:

Damn, that was long winded! Sorry guys! :wink:

[NZ]

I hate to be boring but a long time ago when I learn't lighting, yes Noah was still a young boy, I was taught that if I needed to insert a point cue between two memories you made it X.5. That way if you needed to add further cues you had the ability to do so with out a major rework of point cues. It was also down to me to write a cue sheet that matched what the book said. If the stage manager called a cue it didn't always match what the number on the desk was. Ideally it did but not always.

 

That was when we got our first memory desks. Before that it was a 3 preset 72 channel desk and not only did you have to write down the cue number but all the channel levels as well. That also mean't remembering to move the scrollers when they were dark on the current preset so when you brought the next cue up the colours where right.

 

Now you all want it done for you! Careful just now the desks will think so much a sound monkey will be able to do your jobs :wink:

 

Just joking! Our new desk will allow renumbering but will have only a single level of point cues.

[K-Nine]

Perhaps x.x.x would be useful but to be honest 9 is usually plenty of inserts between 2 subsequent cues!

 

David

 

I think that's roughly what I said in an earlier post, any more inserts suggests bad planning :twisted:

[Pinspot]

I just started to learn how to use a FatFrog and my question is can the FatFrog do point cues? Example would be if I wanted to insert a cue between cue 1 and cue 2. I could make a cue number like cue 1.5

Thanks

[Kirkup_xp]

To insert point cues, there are two ways of doing it. The first is to select the cue you wish to insert a point cue after, and then press Insert. The LCD prompts you to select the point cue number .1 to .9 and a press of Enter inserts the cue.

 

The simpler way, if you have a keyboard attached, is to hit Memories (to move to the 'no' column), then type the number of the point cue in on the external keyboard, and hit ENTER. This inserts the point cue, ready for programming.

 

Both of these methods will insert the point cue, but only temporarily. If you move away from the point cue (up or down) in the Memories screen, it disappears.

[sam.henderson]

The simpler way, if you have a keyboard attached, is to hit Memories (to move to the 'no' column), then type the number of the point cue in on the external keyboard, and hit ENTER. This inserts the point cue, ready for programming.

 

Didn't know that- ingenious (sp.??)

 

Both of these methods will insert the point cue, but only temporarily. If you move away from the point cue (up or down) in the Memories screen, it disappears.

 

Thats the duck- has a note all ready been made about that (i.e. has it got a frog referance number??) as an idea for future updates?

 

What would be good is if once you have requested it, it stays there until you delete it like you would any other normal cue. Anyone think this is a good idea- bad idea?? :?

 

Sam

[Pinspot]

I don't understand. You can make a point cue but you can not record it as a point cue. So what's the idea of making a point cue if you can't record it?

 

If that's what you mean when the point cue is only made temporarily and then disappears when you move up or down in the memories screen.

[minimac]

what Kirkup_xp means is if you create the point cue and dont programme it strate away and move either up or down it is deleted because it thinks you do not want it, but if you do as above and then record it will stay recorded. 8O

[Pinspot]

Thanks for clearing up the confusion minimac. I’ll give that a whirl

[K-Nine]

Inserting Memories - Frog Series Manual - Page 4-12 or try Peter's method with the external keyboard

[ice]

When working with an external keyboard, is it possible to insert a number other than .1-.9? Also; there should be somekind of option to insert new memories at any given place. At the moment (or something changed since last OS update?) you can insert a .1, .2 .3 etc... but after that there's no possibility to insert another number after one... for instance a new memory is created and all successive numbers get increased by one...

 

So:

1,1.1,1.2

selecting 1 and pressing insert:

1,new 1.1,1.2,1.3

 

That's not possible yet, right?

[K-Nine]

The current specification/implementation is as follows:

 

The desk will provide the facility to insert up to a maximum of nine point memories between two whole number memories (eg memories 3.1, 3.2, ….. 3.9 between memories 3 and 4).

 

Memories cannot be inserted between a whole number memory and its first insert memory (eg 1 and 1.1), two consecutive point memories (eg 1.1 and 1.2), or the last insert memory and the next whole number memory (eg 1.9 and 2). An error message will be displayed on the LCD in each of these cases if this is attempted.

[Kirkup_xp]

Just to add, Ice, you can enter any number in the 'no' column. Say for example you currently have cue 20 selected, you can type in 14.7 enter and that cue will be inserted and made as the currently selected cue.

[ice]

Okay, any chance of that item getting a reference number? I can understand you aren't able to add more than 9 new cues, but in my opinion it should be possible to add one on other points than what currently possible.

[K-Nine]

Probably a better solution to this problem would be a renumber memories function which allows the user to specify a start memory number and increment, therefore spreading the memory numbers out and allowing him to insert addtional memories into the cue stack where he likes

 

However, there are some who might say that if you need to insert more than 9 cues in between integral number cues then you haven't planned your show very well :twisted:

[Kirkup_xp]

Just a bit of a tip... it may be obvious, but always works for me.

 

Whenever i'm inserting a cue, I go for .5 first. Then if i need to insert a cue before or after it, I can do this up to 4 times each way - .3 and .7 come next, followed by .2, .4, .6, .8. If necessary, .9 can be used, although you may have to shift other point cues around to get the gap where you need it.

 

Sometimes renumbering cues is a bad option - if your show is called by a DSM, they will hate for renumbering all the LX cues just to fit one more point cue in. If you were to introduce a renumber cues option, it would be best to have it selective, ie over a range. I might want to renumber all of the cues within a scene, or musical number. If there werent enough 'whole number's available for that section, the software could insert point cues using the logic above - .5 first, then .3 and .7, then fill in the gaps, until it fits all the cues. Worst case scenario would be if you had filled all of the point cues in that entire range, in which case, no change would be made.

 

However, there are some who might say that if you need to insert more than 9 cues in between integral number cues then you haven't planned your show very well :twisted:

 

Sometimes its not our fault that the director decides actually they want 20 more cues before lights up on Scene 3. Do you want us to program every 10th cue, just incase? I have done this, in the past, with a certain director who was very unsure of what they wanted.

[K-Nine]

Some fair points there, Peter

 

I agree with your philosophy, ie inserting x.5 first ... this gives you more flexibility in inserting additional cues either side then if necessary