Newer Firmware seem to be less and less compatible with Solution Hardware....

[ziglight]

Hello
for some reasons I don't use the Solution desk anymore and the last Firmware I ran shows with that console was 7.9.2 (one whole year ago... and switched now to another brand)
In the first time I was quite happy with the fusion of the new Firmware for Solution-Desks (7.9 coming from old 7.8) and bringing with it lots of new features from the FLX-Desk
unless that there were this very annoying latency-bug for the LCD-refreshing the Solution ran very fine ! (which get worse and worse with every new Firmware (but the Support-Team told me that there seems maybe à fix for that be possible in the future)

I just loaded 7.9.3 and also 7.9.4 into the console to give it a try (and to see if things now are going better) but I am quite horrified to see that things even go really worse now for the Solution Console ! => many features developed for the FLX and its hardware just don't work on the Solution and there are more and more bugs coming up....

as I said already last year; I think that the Solution is on the descending road and will be abandoned in a near future...
even when the support team gives advertises (how to handle a given bug) I realized that the given hint might work on the FLX but does not work on Solution (so it seems that they even  don't use the console anymore themselves)

for shure the user can go back at any-time to the latest "real Solution-Firmware" which is "ZerOS 7.8.2.39"; this is a very hard step into the past either (for me also unhappy)
for me personally if I would continue  working with  the Solution, I would stay probably on 7.9.2 which is for me the best compromise between old and new (and most of the features are still "working")

here is just a little listing of things that work not good or not at all on Solution Desks with newer Firmwares:
SETUP; be careful because now it it impossible to use 50% of the Setup menus without an external Monitor (FLX get its own internal touchscreen)
=> for the most Setup-Menus, once you're in you can't get out anymore = you're stuck !;  very often there is no button for Cancel or Back and the OK command (Enter-button) does not do anything in a given case !
Patching seems impossible or very difficult because one gets stuck on the new Offset parameter
Fixture-Schedule (before : Fixture Edit) just does not work without without external monitor
DMX-IN now shows up page and pages and pages, one whole page for every line on the external monitor - you want to change one of your 20 or 30 DMX-INs ?? okey you have to scroll through 20 or 30 pages on the MFKs !! what kind of joke is this ????
aso aso aso....

Playbacks : now when launching a playback with a fader the little white strip goes up on the LCDs (as it did before !) but never goes down again !! so after 5 minute of the show all these little white strips are on !! and one does not know which playback is on and which is off especially when changing pages  (note on the external monitor and the FLX monitor these strips go up AND down again !)

finger-groups for encoder wheels don't work any-more and the hint given on the Forum that the encoder-wheels will show up in the same order they are recorded by the fixture editor does probably work well for FLX but does not work at all for Solution and now when we have a fixture with 4 or 5 parameters (say RGBW) it's always the second page (say W alone) that shows up !! quite irritating !! (very curious, when the fixture has 6 parameters, and not 4 or 5) then the first page (RGB) shows up first correctly !!

to set Topset or home or default values is now not precise at all; move the fader and record -> seems easy !; but say I want 27% precisely for my fogger; it not possible unless to have the DMX-Output window on...
and when I want to change a given recorded value its nearly impossible to get it done by fader movements (strange things happen) unless to erase all and restart from scratch...
anyway I prefer largely as it was before : you have a case; you fill in a given value and its done !! if you have to change, you change the value and its done !!

what about the supression of choice to show up percent or DMX-Values; now its DMX-Values for certains attributes and no more choice !! the support-team argues that percent is not precise enought (not enough steps) this may be right; but the user had this choice before and there is no more choice now !!!! why ??? I mean we don't ask to add a new feature !! we just ask you to leave it as it was !!!

the copy-paste feature for pallets just disappeared !!! why ????

what about that messy new bug for "monitor calibration" ????? nowadays we cannot calibrate normaly the monitor.... for some mystical reasons we now have to hit the update button and hope that it works (because it does not work every time either...).... what kind of a bad joke is this ????

and so on, and so on.... I did not get really deep into these two Firmwares (and saw already too much bugs !) but its very clear for me that they are not more really adapted for the Solution hardware and there are more and more bugs and strange things happen... and the very happy fusion of one Firmware for all hardware seems to show now very clearly its limits !!

in three simple words "its just disappointing" !!

[Jon Hole]

Hi ziglight,

We're working hard to continuously improve ZerOS for all our customers. The vast majority of our Solution users are telling us they're really happy with the last few software updates. For those who aren't, they have access to the previous software. 

Just last week we emailed you privately to ask if you'd be interested in testing new software which specifically resolves your main concerns. Therefor I'm surprised you've taken that opportunity to publicly reopen conversations on the forum. We've covered a lot of these issues before, but I'll reply to some of the new points below.

On 7/16/2018 at 7:39 AM, ziglight said:

latency-bug for the LCD-refreshing the Solution ran very fine ! (which get worse and worse with every new Firmware (but the Support-Team told me that there seems maybe à fix for that be possible in the future)

A BETA will be released soon that resolves LCD latency. I don't believe this has got worse every release - the latency started during one very specific release, in some situations, for a very specific reason (which we've talked about before - prioritising DMX data and button presses higher than LCD redrawing). 

On 7/16/2018 at 7:39 AM, ziglight said:

even when the support team gives advertises (how to handle a given bug) I realized that the given hint might work on the FLX but does not work on Solution (so it seems that they even  don't use the console anymore themselves)

We continuously use all our consoles, including Solution, for training, software testing, and personal shows & events. Please can you give examples of when the support team have "given hint might work on the FLX but does not work on Solution"? If that is the case, we'll happily go back and edit those responses as they're clearly incorrect.

On 7/16/2018 at 7:39 AM, ziglight said:

SETUP; be careful because now it it impossible to use 50% of the Setup menus without an external Monitor

This was a deliberate decision based upon a lot of customer feedback - including (but not limited to) the following thread. The vast majority of our customers use Solution with an external monitor. We're able to create software that's much simpler, quicker, modern and more intuitive by depending on a monitor, rather than trying to force features onto a set of 5 x 4 buttons.

 

 

On 7/16/2018 at 7:39 AM, ziglight said:

what about the supression of choice to show up percent or DMX-Values; now its DMX-Values for certains attributes and no more choice !! the support-team argues that percent is not precise enought (not enough steps) this may be right; but the user had this choice before and there is no more choice now !!!! why ??? I mean we don't ask to add a new feature !! we just ask you to leave it as it was !!!

To make software simpler, more intuitive, quicker and more accurate we have to make decisions like this. 

On 7/16/2018 at 7:39 AM, ziglight said:

what about that messy new bug for "monitor calibration" ????? nowadays we cannot calibrate normaly the monitor.... for some mystical reasons we now have to hit the update button and hope that it works (because it does not work every time either...).... what kind of a bad joke is this ????

This is specific to Iiyama monitors - who don't provide unique identifies between their monitors which require different drivers. Therefor, we have to provide a way for you to switch driver. If it's not an Iiyama monitor, this isn't displayed. No "mystical reason" - a reason explained in detail since we launched that feature.

 

I believe we've gone through all the other points you raise before. I'm more than happy to continue conversations on any new points that come out of this reply.

[ziglight]

Hello Jon ; thanks for the response.... and no doubt about the fact that you are working hard to try to do things the right way (and this is certainly a 100% verified for FLX and FLXS consoles)

just to point that out : I didn't talk about any Beta-Version (Edward told me about a new Beta but I didn't see  it yet); =>> I really was talking about the two latest OFFICIAL Firmwares version 7.9.3 and 7.9.4
The last show I did with Solution was in summer last year and under 7.9.2; so I was curious to see what kind of "evolutions" are brought by newer Firmwares

I published my observations here on the Forum because I am really very astonished to see that lots of features that worked fine in the past, don't work any more or don't work correctly now. I thought that newer Firmwares should run the hardware better and better but obviously this is not the case for Solution Desks with newer Firmwares. =>>>> nearly all the bugs and issues I mentioned seem have appeared since V7.9.3 (so in my personal mind these Firmwares are regressions because things that worked before don't work anymore now !)

Concerning the SETUP-Menu I remember there where some discussions on the Forum last year, and for myself there would be no problem to use an external monitor if necessary (and if I am informed about this fact before installing new software !). But I did not find the mention of this necessity in the Release-Notes and I can imagine that some user who does not read the Forum regularly might be "surprised" to find a setup-menu not working anymore (for example patching and editing  fixtures etc) after updating the Firmware... (shouldn't we have at least a "Cancel" or "Back" button to get out of these "trap-pages" with no issue ?)

anyway, as you said : any user can go back at any moment to older Firmwares.....
and that said : if you think that my message does not have its place here or that it does not bring any "new" information just feel free to erase it...no worries

(I didn't even remember that I came back on the Forum in December 2017 and posted the messages you mentioned above., including some notes about 7.9.3...I did not use the console since one year or so and it was under V7.9.2 ...)

[gdrlighting]

Did the Beta fix ever happen for the latency issues? If so, can I get in on that?

 

[Edward Z88]

Hello,

12 hours ago, gdrlighting said:

Did the Beta fix ever happen for the latency issues? If so, can I get in on that?

Yes it is available on the beta tester's forum at the moment.

Please send an email to support@zero88.com with a request to gain access to the beta software (ZerOS 7.9.4.7), and one of the team will be able to arrange this for you.

We have had a lot of positive feedback on this beta regarding Solution performance enhancements.

Any queries let me know.

Edward