Grand master control of fixtures

[tribo]

Hi all,

This has probably been asked and answered before but here goes....

fat frog running 48 dimmers and 8 individually addressed stairville LED pars starting at 49 (set as fixtures)

each par has 4 channels - 49 mode, 50 red, 51 green, 52 blue, then the next one is 53 mode, 54 red, 55 green, 56 blue etc etc......

This all works fine when you're just programming memories - you use the wheels to get the right colour in the right place....

but the grand master does not control the overall brightness. - Is there a way to achieve this?

Secondly - if I try putting individual colours onto subs (either as channels or memories) it fades the previous sub - even with the previous sub fader still up.

All suggestions welcome! :) cheers

[Edward Z88]

Hi Tribo,

This is probably down to the fixture file. Most RGB fixtures that don't have a dedicated Dimmer channel have a Virtual Intensity, which allows the console to scale the RGB values as if the fixture has an intensity. If this is a fixture in the current fixture library let me know which one it is, and I'll go in and edit the file so the fixture does have a virtual intensity.

As a separate note, for Virtual Intensities to work on Fat Frogs you need to be running the latest version of FrogOS, version 10.12 available here...

http://support.zero88.com/975242041

This will also allow the submaster faders to fade the colour up. You will however still see colours snap if you fade red of one fixture up over the top of green on the same fixture for example, as the Colour attribute uses Latest Takes Precedence rules.

Hope that helps and makes sense, any queries let me know.

Edward

[tribo]

Thanks Edward - the fixture file is one I made for our PARs.

I'll get the latest OS on and then edit the fixture file  - fingers crossed! 😀👍

[Edward Z88]

Hi Tribo,

No worries, let me know whether you need any advice on adding Virtual Intensities with the Fixture Editor.

Edward

[tribo]

Hi again,

I tried the OS upgrade and it tried loading it but then I get "desk ID is invalid"

"serial number not recognised"

"startup halted"

it won't go any further than that - if i remove the disk it starts up with the old OS.

any ideas?

[kgallen]

Weird. The FrogOS on the floppy is an uncompressed file isn't it?

Might be time to check the battery unless you've changed it recently (below assuming your Fat Frog has a VGA output):

 

[Edward Z88]

Hi Tribo,

As Kevin suggested, make sure the battery is healthy. Software updates will not be installed if the console is losing its Date/Time.

If you have replaced the battery recently and are still experiencing error messages whilst trying to update the software, format the floppy disk from the console. This can be found in Super User. Then plug the floppy disk into your PC and simply drag the software file onto the floppy.

Hope that helps, let us know how you get on.

Edward

[tribo]

20 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Weird. The FrogOS on the floppy is an uncompressed file isn't it?

Might be time to check the battery unless you've changed it recently (below assuming your Fat Frog has a VGA output):

ok.... I've replaced the battery and now it starts up with the upgrade disk (formatted on the console) but it loads the old OS

The file on the floppy is frogupg.osf (854kb) taken from zero88 website

Arrrgghhhhh!

 

[tribo]

Aha!!!!! - fresh battery - fresh floppy disk - BINGO! - we have an upgraded desk!!!!

Thankyou Kevin and Edward - 5 gold stars each! 👍😀👌

[Edward Z88]

Hi Tribo,

Great, no problem!

Any queries let us know.

Edward

[kgallen]

49 minutes ago, tribo said:

Aha!!!!! - fresh battery - fresh floppy disk - BINGO! - we have an upgraded desk!!!!

Thankyou Kevin and Edward - 5 gold stars each! 👍😀👌

Crikey , Tribo, you went through the mill with that a bit! I'm one of the lucky ones and so far I've never had an issue with my Fat Frog being fussy over floppy disks! (Although now I have an FLX the FF hasn't been out for a couple of years...  I must check the battery hasn't leaked!)

Enjoy, anyway!

[tribo]

Thanks again guys.... even got my fixtures working on the grand master now! - happy days 😀

[NigelP]

I'm a newbie to the Fat frog. Sorry about this but I am up against a steep learning curve with a big show coming over the horizon fast!

My problem is with LED fixtures. I can get the normal channels 1 to 48 working fine, but how do you get a LED fixture starting at DMX 49 into the memory stack and how do you get a virtual intensity set up and working for it?

I have just downloaded fixture library 36 and loaded and assigned the LEDJ Performer 18 Hex - 6 Channel and Performer 18 RGBWA - 5 channel fixtures (4 of each) since these are the normal ones I use.  They work fine on the wheels, however, as with the other post, I can't get them to dim.  I'm about to upgrade the OS to 10.12, but I still have no idea what to do about a virtual fader, or how to link the fixtures into the faders.  Nor can I find any information or tutorials on this problem.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Nigel

[kgallen]

Hi Nigel,

You only really need virtual intensity support (as in FrogOS 10.12 [actually it came in 10.10, but use 10.12]) if the LED fixture doesn't have a DMX channel for "dimmer" - I'm sure both of your LEDJ LEDs will have, they look reasonably recent as they are pent and hex LED fixtures. However you suggest you want to run them in their 6 or 5 DMX channel mode which is where you would use virtual intensity.

So your options are:

- set your fixtures into one of their higher channel count modes and use their built in dimmer capability

- use the "minimum" channel modes and upgrade to 10.12 and use virtual intensity. However you will need to confirm that the fixture definition has defined the virtual intensity channel for the min-channel option. If the Z88 chaps built the fixture definitions I'm sure they would have done, however it's worth checking in the Fixture Editor tool (

You say you've patched your fixtures into the FatFrog, which is the "hard" bit. To record into the memory stack just set them up the same way as you would one of your 48 generic channels, then press PROGRAM. Of course when using "complex" beast like LED fixtures you have some other considerations, like whether to use Full or Partial mode. For now, stick with Full which means the desk will record everything about every dimmer and fixture in each cue.

You talk in your post about mapping to faders - you don't do this with the 12 non-conventional fixtures (those controlled from the right hand side of the desk). You will dial up the LED fixture brightness with a wheel after pressing the Brightness button.

The latest manual is here: https://eaton.nanorep.co/storage/nr1/kb/2AD62C9/3879A76B/3ACE27E9/6/Frog Range Manual.pdf

But realistically you'll also need to have a good read of the 10.12 Release Notes here: https://eaton.nanorep.co/storage/nr1/kb/2AD62C9/3879A76B/3A210339/32/FrogOS Release Notes v10.12.pdf

And of course the 10.12 software for the desk here: https://eaton.nanorep.co/storage/nr1/kb/2AD62C9/3879A76B/3A210339/31/FrogOS v10.12.zip

 

I hope that gets you started. Drop another query on the forum if needed (maybe start a new topic) and I'll help you out.

Good luck!

Kevin

Some other threads that might help you out:

 

[NigelP]

Thanks so much Kevin, I have now changed the battery and updated the desk to the latest op system, and of course totally cleared the fixture library  so I have had another go at building a new library and assigning the fixtures, successfully I might add!

Foxed me for a while as the new LEDJ HEX configuration changed from using the wheel group but I accidentally found that a double press on the colour button selected the other colours. The dimmers work on all channels and Brightness on the fixtures and they also recognise the Grand Master. So thanks a million for your tips, i can now record a set of cues into the cue stack so I'm more confident about the next outing, Goodnight Mr. Tom.  (164 lighting cues and all in a village hall!!!!)

One minor issue is that there seems to be a noisy fan somewhere, but when I had the desk open for the battery change, I could not locate one.  I have checked the FDD but that seems fine.  Any ideas?

If I hit any more problems, I will ask for your help again if you don't mind.

Thanks again.

Nigel

[iank99]

The noisy fan will be in one of the Performer Hex fixtures - they use a mass produced fan to cool the drivers and sometimes you get a rogue one that either has bearings that ages prematurely or the fan might have been not quite assembled properly.

Talk to the dealer you bought them from if they're still in warranty - they might be able to swap it for a quieter fan BUT there's always some fan noise from these units, they're not thermostatically controlled so you have to accept a rise in the overall background noise level in the hall.

[kgallen]

Hi Nigel,

Glad you're up and running!

10 hours ago, NigelP said:

 I have now changed the battery and updated the desk to the latest op system, and of course totally cleared the fixture library  so I have had another go at building a new library and assigning the fixtures, successfully I might add!

Good move! Don't rely on the "Battery OK" indication on the screen - if you ever see the time go funny, get the battery changed quick. Now you know how easy it is, probably worth changing every 2-3 years.

10 hours ago, NigelP said:

Foxed me for a while as the new LEDJ HEX configuration changed from using the wheel group but I accidentally found that a double press on the colour button selected the other colours. The dimmers work on all channels and Brightness on the fixtures and they also recognise the Grand Master. So thanks a million for your tips, i can now record a set of cues into the cue stack so I'm more confident about the next outing, Goodnight Mr. Tom.  (164 lighting cues and all in a village hall!!!!)

Yes, all of the attribute buttons (Colour, Beamshape, Position) will page through the available options if there are more than 3.

You can define the wheel assignments how you like in the Windoze Fixture Editor - use the "3 Wheel" tab for the Fat Frog. If you load in your fixture you will see on that tab multiple lines under the colour attribute, so hence multiple presses of the Colour button on the desk to cycle around them.

10 hours ago, NigelP said:

One minor issue is that there seems to be a noisy fan somewhere, but when I had the desk open for the battery change, I could not locate one.  I have checked the FDD but that seems fine.  Any ideas?

There are no fans in the Fat Frog - the only motor is that in the FDD. As Ian says, those LEDJ Performer fans are a bit noisy - I have some of the Quad version (I've had them a few years) - they are very bright, but also a little on the noisy side!

Good luck with your show - sounds like you have your hands full and it will be a little bit of a baptism of fire! But the FF will be up to it! Where are you located? (Worth adding to your profile in case you need "local" help).

Any more queries, just open a new thread on this part of the forum and one of us will be along quickly to help out. I'm in get-in week, show week next week, so I'm a bit busy too in my own "village hall", but I'll try to get to you if you're stuck.

 

Kevin