new purchase Jester 24/48

[van den abbeele Eric]

Hello,

I know this console is stopped at ZERO 88.

But I could find one at Thomann.

It meets my needs while waiting for next year to go on an FLX or FLX S.

I have many qustions :

A/
For memory, on the specifications I could see 500 memories on website.
50 memories + the 10 insert which goes up to 500.

Yet last night by plugging my console for the first time, I could see the figure of "999" ...
Have there been any changes in specification? 

More memory ? Insert still possible ?

B /
When the VGA screen is plugged in, I could see "GM = 100%"
What is "GM"?

C /
In program mode, is there a way to access Presets 1/24 (Up) + 25/48 (Down) live?
Or is it possible to only have 24 presets and 24 Submasters?

thank you for your reply

Eric VDA

[kgallen]

Welcome Eric!

I'll attempt to give some responses before Ed/Jon come back online to tell you the latest information!

54 minutes ago, van den abbeele Eric said:

Hello,

I know this console is stopped at ZERO 88.

But I could find one at Thomann.

It meets my needs while waiting for next year to go on an FLX or FLX S.

Jester 24/48 still shows as current product on the Zero88 website. However it's likely there is no further firmware development, maybe that is what you mean.

54 minutes ago, van den abbeele Eric said:

A/
For memory, on the specifications I could see 500 memories on website.
50 memories + the 10 insert which goes up to 500.

Yet last night by plugging my console for the first time, I could see the figure of "999" ...
Have there been any changes in specification? 

More memory ? Insert still possible ?

 I suspect what this means is the desk can hold 500 memories. However maybe they can be numbered anything up to "999" and don't need to be numbered 1-500.

54 minutes ago, van den abbeele Eric said:

B /
When the VGA screen is plugged in, I could see "GM = 100%"
What is "GM"?

GM=Grand Master (see the manual for more information).

54 minutes ago, van den abbeele Eric said:

C /
In program mode, is there a way to access Presets 1/24 (Up) + 25/48 (Down) live?
Or is it possible to only have 24 presets and 24 Submasters?

Other than trying to understand the manual, I can't help you any further with this question, sorry.

Overall though I think you should very much look forward to an FLX (or FLX S) next year. I'm curious that you should spend ~1k on a Jester 24/48 this year if what you really want is an FLX...

Regards,

Kevin

 

[van den abbeele Eric]

Side memory: I could see a Jester 24/48 which was listed software version 3 something.
At the memory level it went well from 1 to 50, + 10 insert.

On my new console version 4.1R2 I indeed 1 to 999. And I tried a few minutes ago the insert and it works too.

That could make 9999 memories ... which seems to me a lot ...
So is this an improvement of memory?
A bug ?

[van den abbeele Eric]

GM = Grand Master ... Thank you

[kgallen]

 

22 minutes ago, van den abbeele Eric said:

On my new console version 4.1R2 I indeed 1 to 999. And I tried a few minutes ago the insert and it works too.

That could make 9999 memories ... which seems to me a lot ...
So is this an improvement of memory?
A bug ?

If I understood you correctly, just because the desk will allow 10 inserts (on other desks this is 10 "point" cues) on a cue numbered anything 1-999 it does not mean the desk has the internal memory to hold 10 inserts on every memory 1-999. I would understand it that the desk can hold 500 memories. You can number these 500 memories using a cue number of the format nnn.m.

So for example you might have cues (viz "memories") 1,2,3,5,7,7.5,15,15.2,15.8,17,20 etc etc where there are no more than 500 of these.

The point cues usually come about because during programming the director asks for a lighting change between the cues you have already recorded. Gaps in the numbering happen because you delete a cue or decide you didn't want to record that cue in the first place.

Certainly in my experience, when I prepare my proposed cue list from the script and discussions with the director, when I get to tech rehearsal and actually do the programming, the director asks for an unplanned change, which can results in a point cue (so I don't have to renumber cues in all of my documentation), or I/we decide not to do a lighting change we had envisaged to do - which results in a gap in the numbering. It seems Jester has this sort of flexibility - which for example I did not have with my first programmable desk, the Alcora - where I had to strategically leave blank memory (cue) numbers in case I needed an "insert"!

On FLX, you can have 100 "point" cues, for example a cue numbered 15.24, but that does not mean the desk has memory capacity for 9999x100 cues.

 

HTH

Kevin

[van den abbeele Eric]

I agree with you.
If a memory can contain "X mega", it will not be able to store more than its physical capacity!

But since the notice that I have is a version 3 something and the console is version 4.1, there is a lot of questioning ...
In fact on the basic specifications, and on the menus of older models of the Jester, the display corresponds to the technical specifications.

In my case, I just want to know if in this version 4.1, the display is just a software improvement, or display 1 to 999 (+ inserts) without being able to write more than 500 memories ...
Or if there have been changes to the latest models produced by ZERO 88.

In fact on the instructions for use of the Jester 24/48, a lot of things are not indicated.

For example, there is no representation on the record of what is displayed on the video screen. Memories, submaster, keyboard access, display of USB memories, etc ...

Thank you for helping you

[kgallen]

Hi Eric,

I suspect what you need are a complete set of Release Notes to bridge between the Software Version described in the manual and that on the desk. With the Fat Frog, the most recent, most powerful, most radical and sometimes most useful features were described (in some detail) in the release notes!

I found this page for the Jester. There are release notes, but from a quick glance they only seem to cover the most recent changes. Maybe you can find some useful information here. After that maybe Jon or Ed (Zero88) can fill in the blanks for you.

http://support.zero88.com/Legacy-products/Legacy-Consoles/Jester-12-24-24-48/975199541/Jester.htm

 

Kevin

 

Jon: The "Software Update" link for Jester is broken on the top Lighting Consoles page, This one: http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/List/Index/32/software

[van den abbeele Eric]

Yes I think that between versions of software and user mode, there is a big gap ...
I will try to see at Zero 88, if I can have more information on the evolutions between the old versions 3 and the version 4 ... To know if there was just software or software/hardware evolution...

And also to have the answers at the level of the memories as possibilities from this console.
Knowing that as I said above, this console will serve me as a backup console when I have a FLX / FLX S ...
thank you for your help

Eric

[kgallen]

Hi Eric,

2 hours ago, van den abbeele Eric said:

C /
In program mode, is there a way to access Presets 1/24 (Up) + 25/48 (Down) live?
Or is it possible to only have 24 presets and 24 Submasters?

I'm not sure I fully follow your question, but I had a bit of a read of the manual around this. I will base my comments on you saying you have a Jester 24/48 which has two rows of 24 faders in a 2-preset organisation.

If I understood the manual correctly... I didn't find it fully unambiguous myself...

In Program Mode, you will be using the faders to set the lighting levels of 24 lighting channels (traditional 2-preset fader layout), or 48 channels if you're in Wide mode (2-preset emulation based on one set of 48 physical faders with software paging). In Program Mode, the channel flash buttons are used to program the submaster that will correspond to that same number once in Run mode. When in Program Mode you don't actually have any submaster faders i.e. you can't assemble a lighting look using submasters in order to program a memory.

Once you're in Run mode then you have a fixed mix of fader usage. The top row of faders [Preset A] can be used as HTP overrides of the given channel. Those channels will be 1-24 and if you are set for Wide mode, then you'll have to use [Page A] button to get access to channels 25-48.

Similarly, when in Run Mode, the bottom row of faders [Preset B] are devoted to submasters. Initially that is submasters 1-24 and you press [Page B] button to get to submasters 25-48.

So in Run mode, you can't operate the faders as 2x24 or 1x48 (Wide). Nor can you operate them as 48 submasters. The mix of channel control and submaster is fixed.

In fairness to Zero88 I think they packed a lot of functionality onto the faders in as simple method as they could. Giving other "mix" options would arguably be beyond the use model of customers adopting such a console. The predecessor of the Jester 24/48, the Alcora, which I have, does not have any submaster capability, and this looks to be a great addition on the Jester, even if it doesn't have the assignment flexibility maybe you seek.

I'd get that FLX asap if I were you!

Hope that was of some assistance. Of course, if that changed in later software versions to the manual, I'm ignorant to that!

Kevin

 

[Jon Hole]

3 hours ago, kgallen said:

Jon: The "Software Update" link for Jester is broken on the top Lighting Consoles page, This one: http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/List/Index/32/software

Thanks, marketing will get this updated :-)

2 hours ago, kgallen said:

So in Run mode, you can't operate the faders as 2x24 or 1x48 (Wide). Nor can you operate them as 48 submasters. The mix of channel control and submaster is fixed.

Kevin's correct :-)

[van den abbeele Eric]

So thank.

Indeed on the manual, it was indicated that in "Run" mode we have half of the faders in preset mode and the other half in submaster mode.
But with the update, it could have evolved to have on both rows of Fader, while preset or while submaster.

Question 1 to Jon:
About the cues on a Jester model that I was able to try a few days ago with an older version of Soft, there were only 50 Cues available. With inserts 0.1 to 0.9, it allows to have 500 cues.

On the Jester that I just bought there are 999 cues. And the inserts still exist.
Was there just a soft evolution? Or is there more memory?

Question 2 to Jon:
Is there a more user manual that I can download? Because between the PDF version and the version of Soft, I imagine that there must have been evolutions ...

Thank you for your reply.

[iank99]

Eric,

   As far as I can remember from having seen the Jester as it was originally released (and demo'd to me by a very new to Zero88 Peter Kirkup!)  - the Jester has always had 999 memories but inserts and chases are added from the top end of the internal memory so in effect insert memory 0.1 uses the space for memory number 999 and chase 1 step 1 would then occupy the space for memory 998 and so on.

There's been no major hardware upgrade for the Jester since launch either so it would be perfectly possible to update an older model with the new software - the changes in the software have been mostly to clean up the way submaster memory handling and channel faders in wide mode happened. It's possible that the desk you originally saw had lots of long chases programmed and this would drag down the available scene memories.

The manual has always been a difficult thing to read (which was the bane of my life as I handed over installs with Jesters) and has "suffered" from being further down the "To do" list than the exciting software and console developments. I've also found that once users understand the difference between Record & playback modes and use the desk for a few shows - they don't need the manual, the updates made by Jon & co have made it a more intuitive desk to use.

If you do need a show with lots of cues & chases (and I've only met one user who did) then it is possible to save first half of a show to a USB stick then reload the second half from a second stick (two sticks labelled saves a lot of confusion compared to saving both parts on the same stick!). If you really do need lots of memory then you should be looking to use a ZerOS desk - either Solution or FLX which will allow far more complex programming than you'll achieve with a Jester.

[van den abbeele Eric]

Thank you for the answer...

in fact on the Jester instructions for use it is indicated:
"Low Memory Warning: The Jester has a maximum capacity of 500 memories, ...."

As indicated in a previous post, when I could do a test with this console and a older soft, I had access (Memory empty of course) to 49 memories + inserts.

= 500 memories.

And so on the console that I just received, I have in program mode, 999 memories.
So if physically (RAM) I have 500 memories but on the soft I have 999 memories, I tell myself that in fact everything that exceeds 500, 501, 502, 503, etc, it is useless since the memory will be full!
It's a bit like a car that rolls at 180 KM / H and the meter goes up to 240 KM / H.

 

From which my logical question to know if on the last models, it is just the soft one which allows to go up to 999 memories or if on the side Hardware, the capacity was heard!

 

FLX or FLX S 48....
Then of course I expect to spend well in 6 or 7 months, when I have the money, to an FLX. The jester will become a backup console AND / OR a secondary console.
I often have 2 consoles. 1 which is for programming (LANBOX) and a traditional control room to access live a number of projectors.
And that is handy!

I use some few moving head, lots of LED (PAR 64) et few traditional PAR and PC. And all of this for Dance Show. I work in theater way.

Work with a written conduct. part after part, and most of the time between 150 à 300 effects !

thank you for your attention

Eric VDA

[kgallen]

It could be that on higher Jester models (ML, TL) maybe more RAM is fitted?

Or it could be as my earlier post that "1.n" to "999.n" is just a reference and you can have 500 of them!

Seems like you need to save quickly for that FLX!

 

All the best,

Kevin

[Edward Z88]

Jesters have always had the ability for a maximum of 500 cue “slots”. These cues can then be numbered from 0.1-999.9, however the maximum number you can have is 500. On FLX S24 you have the ability to program cue 0.01-9999.99 across 49 Playbacks, however the max total cues is 9999. 

It is a way of allowing you to number your cues with as much flexibility as possible.

Hope that helps

Edward

[van den abbeele Eric]

Thank a lot for your answers !

It 's clear and like this I know exactly what I have !

So Now the further question will be for 2018 what direction to take...

FLX look really good, but expansive...

FLX S 48 (1024 )

 

I know that for instance I need only about 350 /400 DMX channels.

36 LEDs (7 and 8 channels)

5 Lyres ( 14 and 16 Channels)

Dimmers (24 channels)

 

But in the future, if I buy 12 Leds and some few Lyres, I will go on about 600 / 700 hundred DMX channels... So FLX / FLX S will be the right solution.

 

So I will go in a few days in the FLX Forum fr asking questions and be sure that FLX/FLX S will be the right solutions for me !

 

Thank for your  help !

[Edward Z88]

No worries! Any queries with what console you should get just post, or send me an email:

EdwardSmith@Eaton.com. 

Edward

[kgallen]

Eric - I’d get some quotes for FLX. The numbers I see quoted list and on e.g. eBay are not representative. At those levels I never could have afforded my FLX. From what you’ve said I think you should look towards the ‘mother’ FLX to give you maximum flexibility and expansion scope. The FLX S range look darn good but I’m guessing FLX would be the one for you. 

I don’t work for Zero88!

[van den abbeele Eric]

Thank you for your answers. (Sorry for my bad english, Google translate helps me ...)

In fact FLX and FLX S, of course the price indicates that the two types of consoles do not do the same things. Even if the philosophy is the same.

What I loved about the Jester is the great ease of programming ... When my LAnbox broke down, I was able in 1 hour to read the instructions and save my show. Encoding of 35 effects with LED, Moving Light and PC.

For me the difficulty on dance shows is that I have projectors everywhere on stage.
By slide: 2 Laterals / 1 floors (LED / PAR 64)
Which is about 20 lateral and 10 floor projectors.

Against: 8 to 12 per harrow (LED / PAR 64)
What makes 24 LEDS and 12/24 PAR64

Some moving head

several showers (PC)

and of course on the Face.

These are dance competitions, so each group has a short time on stage. And I have to be able to encode very quickly so as not to overrun time.
So I must be able to intervene very quickly on any projector or group of projectors, to enter the effects one after the other.
Knowing that during the rehearsals, the groups of dancers are not in the order of the show.
And so to make the 150 to 200 effects (Cues) I have a morning and an afternoon.

So I have to have a rule that allows me to be able to search very quickly projectors, which is instinctive enough to go fast and that especially allows me to make corrections quickly.

Here.
So in France we have especially the Big MA, Avolites, some Chamsys ...
So hard for me to realize the capabilities of FLX and FLX S. And the videos that exist show little in a show situation, to realize the flexibility and capacity of the machine ... That's it!

Thank you for your attention.

[iank99]

If you have a couple of hours to spend - try Phantom ZerOS... It gives a decent emulation on your PC Screen of what the software looks like for the FLX so you could play with it and get a feel for it..

https://eatonfilesharing.app.box.com/v/ZerOS/folder/42009315015

That might help you with your decision

 

[Edward Z88]

Yes Ian’s right, PhantomZerOS is a great way of learning the consoles offline. We have a had a lot of feedback already saying that despite all the extra features FLX & FLX S offer, programming cues is quicker and easier than on a Jester. 

Edward

[van den abbeele Eric]

Thanks for your information. I've only a problem, I working on MacBookPro. I never use window. It was for this reasons that I was working with Lanbox. Lanbox was right with old OS. (MAC 10.7 Lion)

So I can try to see with people around me, who having Window.

Thank for your help.

 

Eric

[van den abbeele Eric]

hello

 

stil I've this jester and also the FLX+ wings, things on performance are more simple for me...

 

So I use the twice desk simultaneously, the FLX for LED and moving machine on 1 universe and traditionnel projector on universe 2.

and for having Manuel access on traditional projector and Fog machine, I use the Jester. (I use merger and splitter for mixing universe 2 DMX signal.

 

FLX and Jester give me tranquillity and security... 

 

Thank Zero88 !

[Edward Z88]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the post. Glad to hear you’re enjoying Zero 88 Lighting Controls!

If you have any questions just let us know. 

Edward