Keyboard Cursor Navigation

[sam.lawrence]

Whilst a keyboard is plugged into the desk the directional keys can be used to navigate the options on-screen. Unfortunatly the direction of the keys does not match the direction on the screen. Is it possible to remap the keys so that when you press a direction key it goes the same direction of the screen? i.e....

 

The down arrow scrolls down the screen to the next cue.

The up arrow scrolls to the previous cue on-screen.

The left arrow goes left on-screen (across the cue settings)

The right arrow goes right on-screen (across the cue settings)

 

Only a little thing, but i think the desk would be so much easier to program like this.

[K-Nine]

I agree that this may seem illogical on certain monitor screens.

 

However, one important thing that many later users fail to appreciate is that the user interface for the Frog series of desks was originally designed around the Main LCD, the four cursor keys and other front panel buttons.

 

In all cases on the main LCD the up and down arrow keys move the cursor through the editable fields and soft buttons, and the + and - keys (originally < and > keys) adjust the value in the selected field.

 

On the main LCD, the fields on the memory screen, submasters screen etc are effectively a vertical list and therefore the up and down arrows move through the list.

 

It was only when the monitor screens were introduced in Release 3 of the software that this 'anomaly' occurred as it was more logical to put the memory parameters horizontally across the screen on the monitor.

 

As the cursor keys on the external keyboard simply mimic the up, down + and - keys on the desk, then they work as designed for the main LCD.

 

With virtually all the other screens on the monitor, popup windows etc. you will find that the up and down arrows do move up and down the list as you would expect.

[sam.lawrence]

I see your point about it being logical from the POV of the keys on the desk relating to the keyboard keys.

 

However, is it then possible to design a release of the software to not mimic the keys on the actual desk, but so that the keys on the desk work as normal, but when a monitor and keyboard is plugged in the keys on just the keyboard work in relation to the monitor screen.

 

Sorry for being awkward

[K-Nine]

This may require a bit more thought as it may only be applicable or necessary on certain monitor screens.

 

From your initial posting:

 

The down arrow scrolls down the screen to the next cue.

The up arrow scrolls to the previous cue on-screen.

The left arrow goes left on-screen (across the cue settings)

The right arrow goes right on-screen (across the cue settings)

 

Which keys would you then use to adjust the currently selected field ?

[sam.lawrence]

You could use the page up and page down keys to scroll through options for each field

[K-Nine]

I see your point about it being logical from the POV of the keys on the desk relating to the keyboard keys.

 

However, is it then possible to design a release of the software to not mimic the keys on the actual desk, but so that the keys on the desk work as normal, but when a monitor and keyboard is plugged in the keys on just the keyboard work in relation to the monitor screen.

 

Sorry for being awkward

 

This 'anomaly' has been mentioned by several users in these forums and your suggestion above would seem like the best solution.

 

With the main monitor screens, such as Memories and Submasters, it would mean you could now move between fields which was not possible using on the cursor keys on the front panel, but this would be a plus.

 

For example, you could move directly from the Dwell time of memory 1 to the Dwell time of memory 2 in a single key press, where as previously you would have to move all the way back up to the Next memory field across to memory 2 and then all the way down to the dwell time 8O

 

Frog Reference No 5419 - Modify the action of the cursor keys (and other keys as necessary) on the external keyboard to relate to the monitor screen rather than simply mimic the front panel cursor keys.

[pollywog]

Hi together,

 

last weekend it was close to kill an event, as I was not able to use my Bullfrog proberly according to the Problem in Front of it (me)

I was stressed, And my brain was not able to switch up,down to left,right and otherwise.

 

I am always using a VGA-Monitor.

Everytime navigating thru the Memory I was pressing the wrong Buttons on the Keyboard and on the Desk.

 

Therfore the light I was doing locked intressted, but did not fit to the show :cry:

 

How much is it to get an additional Parameter in the DeskSetup:

ButtonControlView: Desk | VGA

 

:?:

 

Waiting hopefully

 

:cry: pollywog

[Angelic]

Morning guys 'n' gals. Now, after using my Fat Frog with the keyboard the other day it finally (took a while to sink in :? ) struck me as to how hard it was to do anything with the keyboard arrow keys. It occured to me that on the memories page (didn't venture into the rest of them) when I want to scroll up and down the screen to select memories/change time values etc. I have to use the left/right arrows, and when I want to go left/right on the screen I have to use the up/down arrows. Now, it may just be me being thick but is there any actual logic to this? Is it possible to change the arrow key orientation as it were?

 

Ta, and greetings to all in Wales,

 

Rich.

[Angelic]

Ahhh, it's deeper than I thought!

 

Cheers!

[Haytech]

Hello

 

according to keyboard navigation problems with cursor (Frog Reference 5419) it will be great when "HOME" key on ext. keyb work.

 

i.e. if you are in memories on LTP Fade time - onlypress "Home" / "Pos 1" the cursor jumps back on Mem Number position of same memory.

same thing on submaster memories.

 

Thats it -

[achamb]

Just to add to the keyboards I find the most annoying part of using the keyboard in the memories screen is when you want to cursor from left to right and you have to use the up and down arrow keys and vice versa. The amount of times my dwell time has become 99:59.99 DOH!

[TrondW]

When using keyboard and ext. monitor the arow keys confuse me.

left and right moves up and down on the monitor and up and down moves left and right ... it would be much easier if you "invert" it.

 

To me it makes more sense to move up and down with up and down keys... and the same with left and right...

 

Comments?

Any reason why it's like this?

 

Trond

[TrondW]

*This may require a bit more thought as it may only be applicable or *necessary on certain monitor screens.

*

*From your initial posting:

*

*The down arrow scrolls down the screen to the next cue.

*The up arrow scrolls to the previous cue on-screen.

*The left arrow goes left on-screen (across the cue settings)

*The right arrow goes right on-screen (across the cue settings)

*

*Which keys would you then use to adjust the currently selected field ?

*

 

I think switching the left and right with the up and down key would do the trick. Pressing left or right moving across the cue settings and up and down change the value at the selected field....

 

TrondW 8)

[K-Nine]

I think switching the left and right with the up and down key would do the trick. Pressing left or right moving across the cue settings and up and down change the value at the selected field....

 

TrondW 8)

 

The feeling I get from most people on this subject is that all four cursor keys on the external keyboard should move the cursor around the monitor screen and that two other keys (TBD) should be used to adjust the value of the selected field.

[Kirkup_xp]

Can I suggest Page Up and Page Down? That seems consistant with many other PC-based programs.

[K-Nine]

Can I suggest Page Up and Page Down? That seems consistant with many other PC-based programs.

 

Sounds like a good suggestion to me ... those keys on the external keyboard are not currently used (as far as I know)

[cbeard]

I agree that it would be a good idea to navigate around the screen using the arrow keys. For parameter adjustment you could use the + - keys (to the right of the number key pad).

 

Also would it be possible to enter a memory number on the keyboard and press enter and the selection bar jump to that memory because it can take a long time to scroll to a memory especially if it is a busy show!

 

Chris

[K-Nine]

Also would it be possible to enter a memory number on the keyboard and press enter and the selection bar jump to that memory because it can take a long time to scroll to a memory especially if it is a busy show! Chris

 

The ability to enter a memory number from an external keyboard to jump quickly to a specific memory was implemented in software version 7.5 (October 2002)

[stagefrog]

Hi all

 

I work alot with a Leapfrog Console and I think it's a really powerful lighting console. But i am missing some features:

- for me it woud be very useful if i had more than 24 Record places per Palette group. (I know, that this feature was discussed before) With the palettes you are really fast in running and controlling a liveshow, but if you use more than one fixture then the palettes places are not enough (especially the Beamshape-Palette). With two different Fixtures you have up to 9 Gobo's per Fixture and some rotating effects and some other effects. Without the ability to program down to individual parameters you have to store each Gobo with ond without rotating, with and without prism effects and so on. To do so i would be happy to have more palettes places.

 

- a blind mode (not only a blind edit mode) would be really helpful

 

- a possibility to scroll through te memory and or the subs list. if you have to change the fade up time on some cues it would be fine if you could leave the cursor on the fade time field and then just move down to the next cue to edit its fadetime and so on. Till now you have to go back to the cue number list then move down to the next cue and then go right to the fade time field again, which is a little bit impractical.

 

 

But the new features added with os 9.2 are really good and helpful. Thank's.

 

stagefrog 8)

[K-Nine]

Increasing the number of palettes has already been discussed in this forum, search for:

 

Frog Reference 5520 - Increase the number of palettes on the Fat Frog and Leap Frog to 48 (using the Shift Button) to match the Mambo Frog and Bull Frog.

 

Not sure what you mean by Blind Mode, other than for editing ?

 

The last point comes back to making the cursor keys on the external keyboard work relative to the two dimensional tables (eg memories and submasters) on the monitor, rather than simply being mimics of the front panel up arrow, down arrow + and - keys.

[stagefrog]

- I really support the meanings of the other user's about a increase in numbers of palettes, because I am using the palettes in most of the cases only live! I hope that this feature can be reviewed soon. Aubout the question, how to display them on the monitor: Why not like the submasters? There you have to switch to different pages as well.

 

- About the blind mode:

What I meant is a Mode, where you can change the values (generics and movers) in live without being outputed via the DMX output.

In my opinion it should work as follows: You're running a show. You like to change something, which wasn't previously recorded on a submaster or on a memory, without being directly outputed. Now you press the "Blind-button", the desk keeps the current DMX values on the output. You make the changes (in blind) and when you press the "Blind-button" once again, the desk is now outputting the new DMX values. (Channels and Values with out a change should be unaffected)

 

- If it would be possible to 'scroll' through the memorys- and submaster-screen with the cursor keys of the external keyboard in a future softwarerelease, then it's fine!

[K-Nine]

It is possible to scroll up/down the memories/submasters screen using the cursor keys ... providing you are in the memory/submaster number column and you use the + and - keys to go up and down 8O

[richard]

It is possible to scroll up/down the memories/submasters screen using the cursor keys ... providing you are in the memory/submaster number column and you use the + and - keys to go up and down

 

doesn't answer the point

if you have to change the fade up time on some cues it would be fine if you could leave the cursor on the fade time field and then just move down to the next cue to edit its fadetime and so on

 

Which is a very good point and is one of the reasons why the frog (and illusion) could never be used in large scale pro-theatre (due to the way that Lighting Designers and board operators work.

[K-Nine]

You obviously missed the thinly veiled sarcasm/irony of my last post

 

We are well aware of the restrictions relating to navigating around the two dimensional tables on the monitor screens (eg memories screen) using the cursor keys on an external keyboard or those on the front panel.

 

Frog Reference 5419 - Modify the action of the cursor keys (and other keys as necessary) on the external keyboard to relate to the monitor screen rather than simply mimic the front panel cursor keys - to be reviewed.

 

We know that this feature would improve the user interface particularly for those which use external keyboards and monitors, but it is not a trivial change to design or implement. The external keyboard cursor key definition would have to be specified for every single monitor screen, popup window, dialogue box etc.

 

There are also the consequences of being able to move freely around the two dimensional tables to consider. This would need to be investigated as the user could move between elements of the tables that currently are not possible, as the navigation of screens, such as the Memories screen was originally based around the main LCD screen.

 

I'm sure NZ will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the frog series of desks was targeted at the large scale pro-theatre markets, but was designed more for the live, rather than pre-programmed, simply press the Go button type of show.

 

The Illusion on the other hand is a different style of desk and is more geared to the theatre style of operation.

 

Incidently, because of the way the main user interface was designed on the Illusion, around the monitor screens, the navigation that you would like on the frogs is possible on the Ilusion desks

[TallPaul]

I think it would be a great idea if you could move around the memories using the cursor keys as described above. Either page up/down or even the keypad +/- keys could be used to modify values. When I first plugged the keyboard into the Frog, I found this really confusing and extremely frustrating, since you inevitably end up changing a value in a field instead of moving the caret.