Understanding tracking?

[robhurt]

Hello!!

 

I'm about to lose the will to live and will most likely be crying myself to sleep tonight.

 

Working on a show, I've had a lot of problems this evening programming. Show file is attached but on certain cues (4 thru 7) the move on dark isn't working unless I record the cue as "cue only" with no tracking.

 

Also, I am using 2 x Mac 700 Profile which, in the most part, seem to be moving on dark as desired, however I am also using 2 x Robe 600 LED Wash which simply do not move on dark at all. Ever. Very frustrating and very confusing as I'm sure it's just me doing something wrong, but I don't recall having similar problems last year! Is it something to do with tracking or is it another issue? Tracking is set to basic if that is any use.

 

Any assistance would be really appreciated. The show starts in less than a week and I am getting nowhere!

 

Thanks

Rob

Sinbad the Sailor 12-02-22.isf

[Howartp]

I was going to add to Rob's post with a few examples of what's happening versus what's supposed to be happening, but Phantom isn't showing me any activity in the Output Window when I load our cue file.

 

I've added cue labels to cues 1-10 to say what should be happening - Ch9 and Ch10 are the only lights in use at this point.

 

What is actually happening, unless we do Shift+Record for 'cue only', is Ch10 fades colour and position from yellow to green and green to yellow when we Go on cue 5.5 and 8, even though Ch10 was at 0 so should have moved dark.

 

If we Go cue 5.5 then type "10 Enter", the LCD encoders show that intensity is indeed 0. Yet (I think) the output window shows Ch10 as 100 in purple, ie it's being tracked from somewhere.

 

Peter

Sinbad the Sailor Updated.isf

[Howartp]

I've had a think about this overnight.

 

Is our issue to do with tagging and smart tagging?

 

If we don't tag the intensity of Ch10 into the cue when we set it to 0, it will track through at 100 and won't move dark?

 

And the Robe's I guess have smart tagging Position into every cue whether they're above 0 intensity or not?

 

With something along the lines of the above, I think I can see a logical explanation for everything that happened last night, including what we haven't asked about (yet).

[Jon Hole]

unless we do Shift+Record for 'cue only'

 

This is the problem.

 

Shift + Record is "Snapshot" not "Cue Only". In Snap Shot, every parameter gets recorded, no matter what.

 

The other thing to remember is just because the intensity of a fixture is tracking / not tracking, doesn't matter that the individual parameters are / aren't.

 

Move on Dark only works if the fixture is at 0% (or another parameter is set to a value that "is dark", such as "Shutter Closed") AND the parameters that are "moving" do not have programmed values within that cue. Because you've been using Snapshot, every cue has parameters programmed within it, and therefor the lights are not moving in dark. I've opened your show on an ORB XF, which shows this a little more clearly, essentially the red values are "bad" (in this situation, not always):

 

 

The easiest way to solve this will be to go into the Playback settings (SETUP + GO together), go to "Advanced" along the top, and then choose "Unblock". This will remove all the red values shown above.

 

To stop this happening in the future, in the Record Window enable "Smart Tag" - this does lots of the cleaverness for you, and 90% of the time means you can ignore tagging, tracking, cue only etc.

[robhurt]

To stop this happening in the future, in the Record Window enable "Smart Tag" - this does lots of the cleaverness for you, and 90% of the time means you can ignore tagging, tracking, cue only etc.

 

Thank you for your response Jon, I'll try what you have suggested today. I was sure that "smart Tag" was already enabled though!

 

Many Thanks

Rob

[Howartp]

Smart tag WAS (IS) already selected.

 

I only did Shift+Record to try and fix what was broken because otherwise an essentially full stage of white was tracking into each of the cues 1-10 from nowhere. I couldn't find the source of the tracking so had to do Cue Only. (Shift&Record might be snapshot, but it also defaults to Cue Only instead of Tracking

 

I was going to ask if there's a View that showed levels like that; didn't know Orb did it - can it be added to wish list for FLX?

 

Is Unblock an on/off option, or a 'macro' that runs though and unblocks all cues whenever you press it?

 

We'll play tonight.

[Jon Hole]

Smart tag WAS (IS) already selected.

You can only have either Snapshot or Smart Tag enabled at any one time. Enabling one will disable the other. SHIFT+RECORD only temporarily enables Snapshot for that one Record, and then reverts the settings back to how they were previously.

 

(Shift&Record might be snapshot, but it also defaults to Cue Only instead of Tracking

SHIFT+RECORD / Snapshot doesn't affect the tracking setting - this setting is left as whatever it was before (Tracking forwards / backwards / both / cue only).

can it be added to wish list for FLX?

Already is :-)

Is Unblock an on/off option, or a 'macro' that runs though and unblocks all cues whenever you press it?

It's a "macro". If you enable both "Smart Tag" and "Cue Only", you shouldn't get any future blocked values.

[kgallen]

Just intrigued; Jon on your Orb screen shot, "Next: 2", yet the orange bar is next to cue 1 "Audience enter", and if "Current: 1" shouldn't that bar be green?

 

Sorry... just interfering...!

[Howartp]

Hi Jon,

 

Reasonable success today.

 

Unblocking certainly unblocked the dimmer and intensity values - should it have unblocked parameter values?

 

I had to overwrite a number of cues with Smart Tag on to get the tracking back in line of where it should have been.

 

Still definitely got a problem with the Robe 600's - they absolutely refuse to move whilst dark, even after I've set intensity, all colours, all colour rings, the built in colour macro, the CTC and shutter to 0/closed and recorded them into a cue.

 

I updated/overwrote a few of the cues with manual position changes in the previous dark cue where the moving was most noticeable but @robhurt wanted me to leave some 'broken' - he'll upload the cue file when he finishes programming Act2 tonight.

Already is :-)

 

Excellent! I used it a few times this afternoon on Phantom Orb to check what was stored in cues.

 

Peter

[Jon Hole]

Still definitely got a problem with the Robe 600's ... upload the cue file when he finishes programming Act2 tonight.

Send over the showfile with details on which fixtures should be doing what in which cue and I'll take a look

Just intrigued; Jon on your Orb screen shot, "Next: 2", yet the orange bar is next to cue 1 "Audience enter", and if "Current: 1" shouldn't that bar be green?

I end up with all sorts of odd versions of ZerOS only laptop... I think this was an old early beta

[robhurt]

Send over the showfile with details on which fixtures should be doing what in which cue and I'll take a look

 

Emailed to you Jon. Thanks.

[robhurt]

 

Emailed to you Jon. Thanks.

 

Hi Jon

 

Have you had chance to look at the show file I emailed across yet?

 

Thanks

Rob