Confused by playback overlaying

[kgallen]

Tracking, smart-tag=on, 7,8.4 production code, FLX

 

Playback 0 had a cue stack on it.

 

I programmed playback 1 with a single cue state - actually I output Playback 1 Cue 1 and then did Record <playback flash button 1>. This contained various colours on LED fixtures plus a generic. I expected the tagging would be such that the fixture colours would be recorded in Playback 1.

 

When Playback 0 is outputting Cue 0 (the hidden DBO/default cue), then Playback 1 makes the fixtures behave as expected.

 

If however I play back Playback 1 (fader to 100%) against the background of any other cue from Playback 0, then I get "garbage" on the fixtures - some go dark, others change to a different colour (blue seemed to be popular!).

 

So I'm happy to be told I've been an idiot, which is clearly possible, but I found this a little confusing! I expected activating Playback 1 to LTP the fixtures to the "colours" settings as programmed, and then when pulling Playback 1 fader to 0, this would release the fixtures and they'd go back to the LTP settings of the Playback 0 cue in operation. The Playback Setup was as desk default (e.g. Release on lower=enabled).

 

Any enlightenment appreciated! Can provide a showfile if needed...

 

Thanks,

Kevin

 

 

[in addition, what I also found "interesting" but I now realise is explainable due to HTP, was that if Playback 0 fader was 0, I could Go on Playback 0 and new Playback 0 cues would run and light the fixtures as if Playback 0 fader was 100% - I guess this was due to the HTP on all of these channels on the Playback 1 fader at 100%?]

[Jon Hole]

Can provide a showfile if needed...

Yes please - will make it easier for me to follow!

[in addition, what I also found "interesting" but I now realise is explainable due to HTP, was that if Playback 0 fader was 0, I could Go on Playback 0 and new Playback 0 cues would run and light the fixtures as if Playback 0 fader was 100% - I guess this was due to the HTP on all of these channels on the Playback 1 fader at 100%?]

Potentially yes - you could be playing back parameter settings from one playback (LTP) and intensity settings from another playback (HTP).

[kgallen]

Here we go, showfile.

 

Hopefully Jon can tell me what I'm doing wrong!

 

 

testing3.isf

[Jon Hole]

Hi Kevin,

 

There's some Move on Dark settings going on here too (that's what a grey box around the intensity in the Output Window means). So for example, if I'm in Cue 2 of Playback 0, and then I raise Playback 1 up, Fixture 49 goes to 55% intensity but RGB all at 0%.

 

When I then lower Playback 1, the intensity comes down with the fader, but then a second after it hitting 0%, the colour starts to change to Blue, and it takes 3 seconds to do this (as per the move on dark times). This is moving on dark ready for Cue 3 of Playback 0, which has Fixture 49 at 47% in blue.

 

Does this help explain what you're seeing?

[kgallen]

Hi Jon, Thanks for taking a look.

 

Ummm, ok. I guess I'm confused how the MOD behaviour got carried across to another Playback. I assumed MOD actions got computed on the fly as the cue stack was run, rather than being captured as part of a RECORD step. I understand "Don't MOD (colour|beam|pos)" can be set as a Cue Setting, but I didn't have any of those.

 

So in terms of how I recorded the cue to Playback 1 (using it in a "submaster" context), what should I have done differently?

 

This is interesting, I wondered what the grey boxes were. Can you elaborate a bit more on what this means/indicates?

 

that's what a grey box around the intensity in the Output Window means

 

 

It would also be useful to add to the manual a complete table of what various colours mean (as in blue=fading up, green=down, purple=tracking, red=?? [overlayed?], yellow=??, grey box=some MOD activity).

 

Thanks,

Kevin

[Jon Hole]

Ummm, ok. I guess I'm confused how the MOD behaviour got carried across to another Playback.

Playback 0 would have moved on dark ready for cue 3. Triggering Playback 1 changed the parameters. Releasing Playback 1 releases them back to Playback 0. Because Playback 0 is in Cue 2, it takes them back to that value. Once the fixture has been at 0% intensity for 1 second, move on dark kicks back in, and moves it again.

I assumed MOD actions got computed on the fly as the cue stack was run, rather than being captured as part of a RECORD step.

They are computed "on the fly", you're right.

Can you elaborate a bit more on what this means/indicates?

The grey box is shown once the fixture has completed its move on dark movement. So, at default MOD settings of 1s wait, 3s fade, the grey box should appear 4 seconds after the fixture has gone to 0% (if it's going to move on dark). It's to let you know the move has completed, so you can choose not to GO if it's midway through a MOD fade.

It would also be useful to add to the manual a complete table of what various colours mean (as in blue=fading up, green=down, purple=tracking, red=?? [overlayed?], yellow=??, grey box=some MOD activity).

Will do!

[kgallen]

Hi Jon,

 

That's great info thanks. I'll have more of a play with the sequence of events against your explanation. So I still need to work out how to program and use an overlayed playback in the context of what MOD needs to do to reconcile the overall state considering the other non-released playbacks. Complex for the software to handle with all of these concurrent possibilities!

 

Thanks,

Kevin

[kgallen]

Hi. Just having a play with 7.8.5 and there is a bug with the current/next cue colour bars not shown if cue 0 was shown.

 

Using this showfile, Go+0, go, go, now the colour bars have gone but Current:2 Next:3. In this step, cue 0 is purged from the display and it seems the colour bars are not redrawn. Go again and the colour bars reappear. Also cursor keys bring the bars back, but e.g. down puts both bars on cue 2 when Next:3.

[kgallen]

The grey box is shown once the fixture has completed its move on dark movement. So, at default MOD settings of 1s wait, 3s fade, the grey box should appear 4 seconds after the fixture has gone to 0% (if it's going to move on dark). It's to let you know the move has completed, so you can choose not to GO if it's midway through a MOD fade.

Isn't that the wrong way round? Surely the grey box should be there if the fixture needs to move on dark, so you 'don't press go' - user can't be expected to know some fixtures will want to MOD and wait 4s just in case. i.e I wouldn't know the fixture is part way through a MOD because the grey box comes only when it's done. So grey box needs to be there if fixture wants to MOD, and grey box goes once any MOD is over - then I know I can GO as there are no grey boxes on screen.

 

Must be me bein' stuupid

 

Back on my original query and using your case study, I still don't understand why fixture 49 didn't go red with playback 1 at 100% as it should have been recorded with R=100,G=B=0 not R=G=B=0. I have the same 'problem' with fixture 53, which should be in playback 1 as B=100, but if I overlay playback 1 on cue 4, then it goes to R=G=B=0 so it's dark. I concur from watching the display the desk operates as you say, but as yet can't make that stack up in my mind. But basically I didn't manage to record my 'look' of cue 1 into my 'submaster' (playback 1) for recall at an arbitrary time.

 

I tried setting playback 0 to release on lower enabled, so playback 0 dropped all control, but playback 1 still didn't give me the colours I expected. It's just like one of the colour parameters wasn't tagged when the playback 1 was recorded. I tried the same process and recorded cue 1 into playback 7 and it worked just the same (which I'm sure is a relief to you!)

 

So how?

 

At least when I release playback 1 they go back to what the cue stack says.

 

Must be mi' age!

[kgallen]

On 12/10/2015 at 9:52 PM, kgallen said:

Isn't that the wrong way round? Surely the grey box should be there if the fixture needs to move on dark, so you 'don't press go' - user can't be expected to know some fixtures will want to MOD and wait 4s just in case. i.e I wouldn't know the fixture is part way through a MOD because the grey box comes only when it's done. So grey box needs to be there if fixture wants to MOD, and grey box goes once any MOD is over - then I know I can GO as there are no grey boxes on screen.

This seems to have attracted ZOS-7126 which has been implemented in ZerOS 7.9.9.32.

Thanks chaps, much appreciated! 😀

"ZOS-7126 Grey box indicators in Output Window now display during Move-on-Dark, and hide when complete"

All users - see, even after 6 years, you can get your requests implemented! 🤣

[Jon Hole]

You're welcome 🙂 !!!