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Frogs and the Future ?

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ah yeah i would like to do that but you can only have one chase on a sub (and i often have a few:- one constant - one in time to music etc.)

 

With two sets of subs, one set could have each 'look' whilst the others have the chases etc. I just find it really hard 2 keep changing pages - and again it's not easy to bring down a few subs at once :)

 

sp

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I like desks with a fair few subs!! But mind you for smaller show I like having preset faders because they're easier and I like to do things visually. If I was controlling a 60 + generic rig I would go down the keypad option.

 

Sam

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If you had (say) 48 subs, you could provide some sort of facility to patch the subs as 1>1 channels, so sub 1 contains channel1 @ 100%, sub 2 contains channel2 @ 100%, etc. This way, the desk could operate as a 2 preset desk, a 1 preset 'wide mode' desk, or a 48 sub rock and roll desk. There could also be an option to set each fader up as either a channel, a sub, or a cue (a sub with a memory transfered)... that way, if you had one channel for houselights, you could save yourself using a 'sub' memory by just triggering a channel (or combination of channels) - the difference being that a 'sub' can contain intensity profiles, whilst a 'channel' just contains the patch and saves memory space on the desk.

 

These patches should be accessible through a submaster setup screen, and please can we have a default fade time of 0s on submasters... the current 3seconds is annoying.

 

Any chance of giving us some sort of sneak preview of what you're working on, Z88, and then we can suggest improvements?

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You can change the default times for submasters I think :)

 

Go Super User > Desk Setup > Desk Defaults > Submasters

 

There you should be able to change the fade times etc. to ur hearts content

 

sp

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F*ck, 3 minutes too late

 

 

These patches should be accessible through a submaster setup screen, and please can we have a default fade time of 0s on submasters... the current 3seconds is annoying.

 

You can change it in the desk setup i think.

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I like desks with a fair few subs!! But mind you for smaller show I like having preset faders because they're easier and I like to do things visually. If I was controlling a 60 + generic rig I would go down the keypad option.

 

Sam

 

There are always those who would prefer more physical submasters (ie faders and flash buttons) and those who want more programmable submasters, ie more pages.

 

Adding more physical submasters obviously involves increased material cost and adds to the physical size of the desk, which to some is no problem, to others it is a major factor if they are short of space.

 

Adding more pages is relatively simple, providing there is enough memory in the desk to store the additional data - hence why we increased the number of submaster pages to 20 in Release 9 :D

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... Any chance of giving us some sort of sneak preview of what you're working on, Z88, and then we can suggest improvements?

 

You will have to ask NZ88 about that - I'm sworn to secrecy, but I can say that this topic makes very interesting reading ... maybe some of the posters are psychic 8O :P

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no seriously i have done that before, tis quite useful after a band has ended (until u bring down the speaker spot whilst he's talking...)

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other suggestion i thought of was perhaps in super user being able to change what level the flash buttons work. As lamps often have a much longer life when not used at 100%, it would be nice to perhaps be able to reduce the flash to, say, 90-95%

 

sp

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other suggestion i thought of was perhaps in super user being able to change what level the flash buttons work. As lamps often have a much longer life when not used at 100%, it would be nice to perhaps be able to reduce the flash to, say, 90-95%

 

You´re right SP but it should be a "dimmer curve" definition for all generic channels. A sudden limitation of channel output to 90-95 % until flash don´t saves lamptime when lamp can run @ 100% by channel fader or have say a fast chaser.

 

The only thing to do here is to set a lamp preheat and a topset

which can set by nearly every professional dimmer.

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Just an ordinary flash-master would be nice...

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Yes a flash master - nice idea. Think i said this once before, a latch function as well for flash buttons.

 

Oo jus noticed this is the 1000th post in this forum :!:

 

sp

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I'd like the idea of a desk which is 100% free of choise. What I mean by that is there's no such things as a generic section, fixture section etc. The desk setup should be powerfull allowing the user to set up the console in the way he/she wants. For example, 48 faders can be assigned to generic channels, fixture effects (scale effects with faders for instance!) etc.

 

Everything should definitely by scalable; no set number of submaster pages, no set number of pallets etc; just create a new one, and you've got n+1 pallets! Same with the faders; haven't got enough with 48 faders? Just create a second bank of 48! Okay; implementation on these kind of features is rather hard, but it's not impossible! The way I see it; the ultimate console is one you can fully manage by proper use of modular-structure, no limitations like the current range of Frogs have. Cause when you take a look around this forum, loads of questions relate to "the possibility is there, but why can't I perform this action here?"... maybe a little not-well-formed but I don't know how to put it in English.

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Today we found out, that it´s worse to work without power 8O

 

So my sugesstion today:

a independend power distribution for each desk :)

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I guess in theory it would be nice not to have to put limits on the number of items (cues, palettes, macros, pages etc.), but in reality you usually have to impose some constraint, so that the software can range check entered numbers and validate command lines etc.

 

Otherwise you could enter silly numbers and really mess up the layout of your screens etc 8O

 

The physical memory available on a desk also affects how many different cues/palettes/submasters etc... can be programmed and stored.

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The physical memory should be the only constraint... it's not true that when using such a system you'll be getting weird layout or something like that. It's fairly easy, when programming OO dynamic stuff to implement features which can be expanded. That doesn't mean that there are no boundaries. It means the boundaries can be set by the user.

For instance, no limit on submaster pages doesn't mean a user can type in page 845161 and go there; that wouldn't be an option. It means the user has the ability to create page 845161, and after creation going there is an option.

Of course such a setup requires some limitations in the software; it's definitely not as easy as creating 10 pages and locking the user in there. But when you start combining module-based OO code, it gets a load easier to combine features; like transparant programming (make functions only touch one parameter at a time), or usings effects on other parameters etc.

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Surely if you can enter any number for a cue, palette etc without any numerical bounds, there are bound to be certain displays or windows etc that are going to be screwed up by not being able to show the number entered.

 

Imagine a cue list displayed in a window on a touch screen or monitor display where most cue numbers will be typically in the range 1 - 999 with perhaps insert cues as well (eg 12.7), and then for whatever reason ( :twisted: ) you decide to enter the next cue number as 253657845145452369854785456325698547125 ... tell me that won't f 8O 8O k up your displays !

 

There's also the real concern of internal data structures where if a number is 0-255 it can be stored in a single byte, 0-65535 is stored in a word (two bytes) etc.

 

Not forgetting that if you have for example seven segment displays indicating page number of submasters, playbacks etc. then the number of physical displays limits the page numbers you can have, for example a single display allows you up to 9 pages (or 10 if you include 0), a two digit display gives to page numbers 1-99 etc.

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Okay, so limit the cue number to 5 figures + 2 points. Realistically that should be mountains too many, but gives the flexability to number however you want - LX cue 1001 > 1500 in act one, 2001 to 2500 in act two, etc.

 

What was mentioned earlier which definatly needs to be in the new desk is some form of proportional scaling of effects or individual attributes by submaster. Basically this means that as you bring up the submaster, the effect gets bigger (small circle to big circle) or the fixtures attribute fades from its current value to its new value, taking its progress through the fade from the position of the fader. This means you can use the fader to move a light in time with a walk, and other useful things :)

 

Does any of this make sense?

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Agree with your comment on cue numbers :P

 

Effects (movement or otherwise) may require some thinking about - it depends how the effect parameters are stored and processed internally, I guess .. one for our software guru to ponder over :D

 

Loading invidual fixture parameters (eg colour wheel, gobo, iris, strobe etc) onto a fader is something we have considered :D

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Loading invidual fixture parameters (eg colour wheel, gobo, iris, strobe etc) onto a fader is something we have considered :D

 

love to hear that :lol:

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Loading invidual fixture parameters (eg colour wheel, gobo, iris, strobe etc) onto a fader is something we have considered :D

 

Just to clarify I was referring to Frog II here :wink:

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