More questions / issues

[Lufferov]

Hi Jon,

 

I've spent a bit longer with the desk now using the beta build you sent me. Had a couple of incidents where the desk appeared to crash, but after a minute or two of being totally unresponsive all the commands fired at once as it caught up. That wasn't much fun!

 

I've had the FLX hooked up to Capture, but it seems a bit hit and miss with getting the thing to connect. But then I'm not sure if that's an FLX issue or a network configuration thing, I seem to just turn everything off and on a lot until eventually it connects.

 

As a preface, I'm generally very impressed with the desk so far with a few caveats. It certainly feels like it's been released too soon and not ready for a consumer release which is a shame. At the same time, I can see lot of potential for this console as the firmware gets developed over the coming months.

 

Here are my problems:

 

- How can I put a chase into a cue stack?

 

I can put an effect into a cue and that works as I'd expect, but if I want to create a parcan chase and put that in a cue, how do I do that? At the moment, you can either have a cue stack OR a chase. It doesn't appear to be possible to have a chase IN a cue stack.

 

- When plotting in tracking, is it possible to re-record a cue in "cue only" so any changes I've made don't track forwards?

 

For example, I have 5 cues in my stack, I go back to cue 2 and put channel 6 @ 50%. When I re-record cue 2, channel 6 will track forwards. Now I have to go to cue 3 to take it back out and then re-record that cue as well. What I'd like to do is have a way to record channel 6 @ 50% ONLY in cue 2. Sometimes I want my changes to track forwards, so the default record behaviour is fine, other time I only want my changes to happen in the cue I've changed. This becomes more of a problem when changing multiple channels/intensities as it means a lot of work to go to the next cue and undo them all again!

 

- Is there a block command for cues?

 

Another question about tracking, I am in the habit of manually making all my blackouts and other key cues "block" cues. This means if I go back and make any changes before the block cue, those changes don't track into, or beyond the point of the block.

 

- Why does the MFF reset the cue stack?

 

This is an issue rather than a question for me. If I bring the intensity fader down on the cue stack, it resets it back to the start. I really don't expect that behaviour. In my mind, that is a master intensity for the playback and shouldn't change the position in the stack. When I bring the fader back up, I should be in the same cue, not back at cue 1! I just don't like it and it seems like a dangerous behaviour that could cause big problems for an operator during a show!

 

- How can I change all timings of a cue?

 

With default fade times set to say 3s, if I want a snap it seems I currently have to go to every fade time and set them all to 0 one at a time. Is there a way to set ALL time to 0 for a cue? It's currently a dull and time consuming process to have to change each attributes time individually.

 

- How do I copy a cue?

 

So I'm using my master playback, I've created 5 cues and now I want to use cue 2 in cue 6. How do I copy it?

 

- Can you set "Auto-follow" to start after the trigger?

 

Okay, so I have a cue (4) that has a fade time of 10s and an auto follow of 3s. Currently it waits until the cue is complete (10s) and then hangs for the wait time (3s). So cue 5 will trigger after 13s, in some cases that's fine and exactly what you want. But, equally I'd like cue 5 to trigger after 3s, not 13s. In this instance cue 4 will still fade over the original 10s, but cue 5 will trigger 3s after hitting GO on cue 4.

 

- How do I edit channel values in a cue?

 

There's no "Load" button to bring the current cue into the programmer. So, if I'm in cue 5 and I want to change the value of channel 12 from 80% to 70%. Instinctively I type "12 At 70 Enter", but this doesn't work as when I hit "Enter" it edits the cue number, or whatever field is currently highlighted. So how do I change the values of recorded channels?

 

Thanks for the help!

[jw-lighting]

 

I can put an effect into a cue and that works as I'd expect, but if I want to create a parcan chase and put that in a cue, how do I do that? At the moment, you can either have a cue stack OR a chase. It doesn't appear to be possible to have a chase IN a cue stack.

I also thought about that. I'll try to program the chase to another cue stack and trigger this using macros inside the cue stack, the chase should be in. Maybe that's a workaround.

You can also use auto trigger and "Next" to build a chase. In this case it's more complicated to get to the following static cue/scene.

But i agree with you, both ways are not realy what you want. It's a missing feature.

 

 

- How do I edit channel values in a cue?

In conjunction with this question: is there any way to get a (full) preview of a cue, containing information about tagged attributes (which attributes/fixtures are affected) and about values tracked from previous cues?

[Jon Hole]

Hi Lufferov

Almost everything you've asked about can be doen already, and I've tried to answer them individually below. There's one or two which are coming soon!

 

I've spent a bit longer with the desk now using the beta build you sent me. Had a couple of incidents where the desk

Thanks for letting me know - this is why we go through Beta Testing before public release :-)

 

I'm not sure if that's an FLX issue or a network configuration thing, I seem to just turn everything off and on a lot until eventually it connects

Capture has been working fine for us, and we've used it at Trade Shows etc, but I will add an issue to ensure this is checked in the latest Beta for you.

 

- How can I put a chase into a cue stack?

I can put an effect into a cue and that works as I'd expect, but if I want to create a parcan chase and put that in a cue, how do I do that? At the moment, you can either have a cue stack OR a chase. It doesn't appear to be possible to have a chase IN a cue stack.

Create the chase on a separate playback first, and then you can trigger / release it from any cue within your "main" playback. In the cue you wish to trigger the chase, select the "Cue Settings" column and press Enter, choose "Macros" and then choose "Add" next to "Trigger Cue Stacks". You can now choose which playback to trigger. You can then do the same in a following cue to release that playback (the advantage of this method is the chase can be running across multiple cues).

- When plotting in tracking, is it possible to re-record a cue in "cue only" so any changes I've made don't track forwards?

For example, I have 5 cues in my stack, I go back to cue 2 and put channel 6 @ 50%. When I re-record cue 2, channel 6 will track forwards. Now I have to go to cue 3 to take it back out and then re-record that cue as well. What I'd like to do is have a way to record channel 6 @ 50% ONLY in cue 2. Sometimes I want my changes to track forwards, so the default record behaviour is fine, other time I only want my changes to happen in the cue I've changed. This becomes more of a problem when changing multiple channels/intensities as it means a lot of work to go to the next cue and undo them all again!

Yes - if you hold down RECORD, you'll get a record window appear, and in here you can choose "Cue Only".

 

- Is there a block command for cues?

Another question about tracking, I am in the habit of manually making all my blackouts and other key cues "block" cues. This means if I go back and make any changes before the block cue, those changes don't track into, or beyond the point of the block.

Yes - if you press SHIFT + RECORD together, this will take a "snapshot", which will block the tracking. There's also a "snapshot" button in the Record Window (see previous question).

- Why does the MFF reset the cue stack?

This is an issue rather than a question for me. If I bring the intensity fader down on the cue stack, it resets it back to the start. I really don't expect that behaviour. In my mind, that is a master intensity for the playback and shouldn't change the position in the stack. When I bring the fader back up, I should be in the same cue, not back at cue 1! I just don't like it and it seems like a dangerous behaviour that could cause big problems for an operator during a show!

You can change this behaviour if you wish. Go into one of the Playback Settings (hold SETUP + press the playback flash button), go to "Trigger" and then set "Release on lower" to "no".

- How can I change all timings of a cue?

With default fade times set to say 3s, if I want a snap it seems I currently have to go to every fade time and set them all to 0 one at a time. Is there a way to set ALL time to 0 for a cue? It's currently a dull and time consuming process to have to change each attributes time individually.

We're going to add much better timing syntax into a future release - currently scheduled as ZerOS 7.8.5. We're planning to show you what our plan is for the next couple of software releases to be as transparent and open as we can be, but we just need to confirm a few things internally first!

- How do I copy a cue?

So I'm using my master playback, I've created 5 cues and now I want to use cue 2 in cue 6. How do I copy it?

If you're in non-tracking, you can just go into the cue you wish to copy and then record it to the new cue. In tracking mode, you'll need to enable "Smart Tag" or "Snapshot" in the Record Window (by pressing and holding Record). We'll be releasing copy syntax shortly which'll mean you aren't required to go into the cue to record it.

- Can you set "Auto-follow" to start after the trigger?

Okay, so I have a cue (4) that has a fade time of 10s and an auto follow of 3s. Currently it waits until the cue is complete (10s) and then hangs for the wait time (3s). So cue 5 will trigger after 13s, in some cases that's fine and exactly what you want. But, equally I'd like cue 5 to trigger after 3s, not 13s. In this instance cue 4 will still fade over the original 10s, but cue 5 will trigger 3s after hitting GO on cue 4.

Not currently. However, we have had other requests for this, and so I have added your comment to it too. Reference: ZOS-4952

- How do I edit channel values in a cue?

There's no "Load" button to bring the current cue into the programmer. So, if I'm in cue 5 and I want to change the value of channel 12 from 80% to 70%. Instinctively I type "12 At 70 Enter", but this doesn't work as when I hit "Enter" it edits the cue number, or whatever field is currently highlighted. So how do I change the values of recorded channels?

"12 @ 70 Enter Update Enter" should work fine and update this cue. Please can you try again? I know in the beta you are using there's a little bug occasionally regarding ENTER sometimes not completing the syntax - and we'll have a fix for that in the next couple of days, and it is only occasionally - not always.

 

 

Hope this all helps,

Jon

[Lufferov]

Thanks for letting me know - this is why we go through Beta Testing before public release :-)

Sure, I realise the risks of running beta firmware, that's fine and not entirely unexpected.

 

Capture has been working fine for us, and we've used it at Trade Shows etc, but I will add an issue to ensure this is checked in the latest Beta for you.

As I say, this could be a network issue. But in my current setup I have the FLX configured as:

 

Visualisation options -

 

Capture: Enabled

DHCP: Disabled

IP: 192.168.0.15

Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0

 

Then in the network adapter settings of the PC it's set as follows:

 

TCP/IPv4 properties-

 

Use the following IP address:

 

IP address: 192.168.0.12

Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0

 

As far as I'm aware, that's all I should need to do? But when starting Capture, it doesn't seem to detect the FLX console. Rebooting the FLX shows that the capture initialisation was successful but Capture still doesn't list any External universes in the project settings.

 

Eventually I manage to get it to work (somehow), but then without changing any settings, if I disconnect the console, when I re-connect, it doesn't see the desk again.

 

Create the chase on a separate playback first, and then you can trigger / release it from any cue within your "main" playback. In the cue you wish to trigger the chase, select the "Cue Settings" column and press Enter, choose "Macros" and then choose "Add" next to "Trigger Cue Stacks". You can now choose which playback to trigger. You can then do the same in a following cue to release that playback (the advantage of this method is the chase can be running across multiple cues).

Wow, okay, that sounds like a pretty long winded and convoluted way of doing that. In other versions of ZerOS I'm sure I could just transfer a chase into a cue stack?

 

I get the advantage of having the chase run over multiple cues, but the method of doing that using macros seems very complicated.

 

Yes - if you hold down RECORD, you'll get a record window appear, and in here you can choose "Cue Only".

 

 

Yes - if you press SHIFT + RECORD together, this will take a "snapshot", which will block the tracking. There's also a "snapshot" button in the Record Window (see previous question).

 

 

You can change this behaviour if you wish. Go into one of the Playback Settings (hold SETUP + press the playback flash button), go to "Trigger" and then set "Release on lower" to "no".

Good to know this is already possible, I thought it had to be, I just didn't know how. Is there an ETA for a full manual for the FLX? Most of these questions could probably be answered if we had that :-)

 

I guess the lack of physical buttons means we're going to have to learn a lot of multiple key presses, and shifted keys to get things to work.

 

 

We're going to add much better timing syntax into a future release - currently scheduled as ZerOS 7.8.5. We're planning to show you what our plan is for the next couple of software releases to be as transparent and open as we can be, but we just need to confirm a few things internally first!

I thought I'd read that somewhere already, but thought I'd add my name to the list of people who want a better handling of cue times.

 

 

If you're in non-tracking, you can just go into the cue you wish to copy and then record it to the new cue. In tracking mode, you'll need to enable "Smart Tag" or "Snapshot" in the Record Window (by pressing and holding Record). We'll be releasing copy syntax shortly which'll mean you aren't required to go into the cue to record it.

Okay, I use the desk in "Advanced Tracking", I'm not at the desk yet so I'll go and try that later. I haven't tried the "press and hold" technique yet.

 

Not currently. However, we have had other requests for this, and so I have added your comment to it too. Reference: ZOS-4952

Excellent, this is the sort of stuff I've come to expect from you guys and why I had faith in buying this console. I know that you listen to feedback and actively work to give the users what they ask for!

 

 

"12 @ 70 Enter Update Enter" should work fine and update this cue. Please can you try again? I know in the beta you are using there's a little bug occasionally regarding ENTER sometimes not completing the syntax - and we'll have a fix for that in the next couple of days, and it is only occasionally - not always.

I can confirm that 100% of the time, when viewing the playback window if you go to a recorded cue and then type "12 At 70 Enter" as soon as you press "Enter" the "Cue no." box will be edited and no channels can be changed in the cue. I spent a couple of hours with my colleague last night playing with this and we spent a lot of that time swearing at the console for constantly editing the field instead of executing the command we'd typed.

[Jon Hole]

Wow, okay, that sounds like a pretty long winded and convoluted way of doing that. In other versions of ZerOS I'm sure I could just transfer a chase into a cue stack?

 

I get the advantage of having the chase run over multiple cues, but the method of doing that using macros seems very complicated.

It's not too complicated once you do it, it takes a couple of seconds max, but it gives you MANY more options and flexibility - you can easily reuse chases for example, or run multiple chases at the same time. Have a play with it, if you think there's a simpler and quicker way of doing this, whilst keeping the flexibility and speed, please let me know - we're always open to ideas!

I thought I'd read that somewhere already, but thought I'd add my name to the list of people who want a better handling of cue times.

My name is on that list too :-)

 

Excellent, this is the sort of stuff I've come to expect from you guys and why I had faith in buying this console. I know that you listen to feedback and actively work to give the users what they ask for!

Thank you for the kind words :-) We're working at being ever more transparent and open with our development roadmap for you too.

[jw-lighting]

 

Create the chase on a separate playback first, and then you can trigger / release it from any cue within your "main" playback. In the cue you wish to trigger the chase, select the "Cue Settings" column and press Enter, choose "Macros" and then choose "Add" next to "Trigger Cue Stacks". You can now choose which playback to trigger. You can then do the same in a following cue to release that playback (the advantage of this method is the chase can be running across multiple cues).

 

Hi Jon, i tried your way of "embedding" chases into cue stacks. There where a few things which does not behave like i expected:

 

When triggered, the chase runs as expected, Beat tapping is also nice. But the chase does always get always 100% intensity. I can understand this from the point of the programmer. As user i want to integrate the chase in the cue stack, so i want to have control of the intensity of the chase using the fader of the cue stack.

If the empty step i programmed is active and had triggered the chase, the chase keeps running after releasing the cue stack. I expected the chase to be released when releasing the cue stack.

 

I like your way to include a chase in a cue stack, but in my opinion there could be a closer connection between cue stack and chase.

 

 

You can change this behaviour if you wish. Go into one of the Playback Settings (hold SETUP + press the playback flash button), go to "Trigger" and then set "Release on lower" to "no".

 

When the fader is at zero intensity and the playback is not released, does the playback keeps control over non-intensity parameters?

[Jon Hole]

i want to integrate the chase in the cue stack, so i want to have control of the intensity of the chase using the fader of the cue stack.

Added as ZOS-6255

the chase keeps running after releasing the cue stack. I expected the chase to be released when releasing the cue stack.

Added as ZOS-6256

When the fader is at zero intensity and the playback is not released, does the playback keeps control over non-intensity parameters?

Yes, that's exactly what it will do - so if it's set to release it will loose control over non-intensity parameters when you bring the fader down and if it's not set to release it will retain control of these parameters.

[jw-lighting]

 

Yes, that's exactly what it will do - so if it's set to release it will loose control over non-intensity parameters when you bring the fader down and if it's not set to release it will retain control of these parameters.

 

OK, but i think that's not what Lufferov asked for:

 

 

This is an issue rather than a question for me. If I bring the intensity fader down on the cue stack, it resets it back to the start. I really don't expect that behaviour. In my mind, that is a master intensity for the playback and shouldn't change the position in the stack.

 

As understand it he (and me) wants to release the cue stack (so there is no control over any parameters) but not to reset the current cue to cue one.

[Jon Hole]

To my understanding he (and me) wants to release the cue stack (so there is no control over any parameters) but not to reset the current cue to cue one.

Oh ok, I read it differently because Lufferov mentioned "master Intensity" in his post, which is what you get when release on lower is disabled.

 

In my mind, that is a master intensity for the playback

 

I've added your other request (to remember the cue when released) as ZOS-6257, and given it 2 requests just in case that is what Lufferov meant.

[kgallen]

+1 for me on ZOS-6256/6257 too . Until now I hadn't connected both aspects of the release of LTP params and the resetting of the cue stack in my playing around with the "release" setting, but I can see they are both significant in different circumstances!

 

6255 is of course interesting too! Liking this series of posts from JW and Lufferov! Of course, we just want it all!

[Jon Hole]

There's talk about how we can make this work. Something I really want, that's connected into all this, is for triggers / releases to be "tracked" through the stack - so if a playback is triggered in Cue 8, and released in Cue 12, if I jump to Cue 10 the playback should automatically start, or if I miss / jump over Cue 12, the playback should automatically release. It's all connected with the above requests.

[keredyelesob]

Something I really want, that's connected into all this, is for triggers / releases to be "tracked" through the stack - so if a playback is triggered in Cue 8, and released in Cue 12, if I jump to Cue 10 the playback should automatically start, or if I miss / jump over Cue 12, the playback should automatically release. It's all connected with the above requests.

 

I like this idea and look forward to seeing it soon

 

Would it also be possible to link the intensity of triggered playbacks to the playback that triggered them. I know there was talk about this some time ago but just wanted to see if its still on the cards.