How are you 'feeding' the frog ?!

[Haytech]

Hi frog users all over the world

I would like to know how are you working with the frog there a some differences between the desks themselfs but I belive you can vote the one or the other ...

[ice]

I'm still struggling to develop a quick & easy way of programming, as well as running the show.

 

My method of programming nowadays (gen&fix);

[*] patching & assigning (duh, but that also has some logic in it; fronts e.d. are on faderset A, backlighting and effects on bank B; so the ones you flash are nearby!)

[*] making pallets for the fixtures; first of all the first 12 colourpallets are used to select the same colours in each fixtures (so 1 = o/w for all, 2 = red, 3 = orange etc etc). The second half will consist of combinations of colours with match (of course!). The first 6 of beamshape pallets are frequently used gobo's with a slow rotation. The second 6 are the same ones, but with the prism on. The next 6 are strobes; open-slow-mid-fast- and 2 with random strobes, one slow/mid and one fast. The last 6 pallets I use for rotations around the gobo wheel (don't know how to put it differently...) and things like frost & blackout using shutter. The position pallets will be different depending on the show; it's a combination of fixed positions (like drums, guitar, bass etc), or good looking positions (crosses and stuff with movingheads/scans; just something nice) and finally some movements since the last OS update; also in order from slow washes / moves to some rapid stuff.

[*] Ok now its up to the tricky part which I haven't figured out yet... I'm trying to make some kind of system here but it's not there yet. Usually, when performing with a band I group the colours of my PARs (4 most-used in most cases) under the first 4 submasters. But because I hate it that i cant change a page that way (want to flash 'm a lot) I program those in each page (okay; that's not really a good solution, but I don't know another way). Then the other 8 subs are used for fixture things, like gobo-change and color change chases. That's also a tricky thing because I try to program them like 4xgobo, 4xcolour on each page; each page for a different fixture (I like groups, so I tend to program some things for scans, some for the macs, some for colorchangers etc etc). But this method kind of sucks.

[*] The stack I use mainly in theaters; the way it was meant to be used. During live operation with a band I don't really see how it can be used other than like a 13th submaster.

 

I really wonder how u guys go with these things, especially when working (like i do a lot) with a bunch of scans, some movingheads spot, some washes and colorchangers. I haven't been able to find a quick way of programming. It's almost impossible to re-use programs/pallets when the combination of fixtures is different everytime, since there's not a quick way to copy that information?

 

Great topic this is, I really hope to learn a lot from this one; especially from the Frog creaters; what were your intentions when building the desk; how should it be used!?

[Yves]

I mostly work with the mambo frog and there I program the pars on subs like you do on one page, but I program the colours, gobo's, etc on the FX buttons.

those are really useful.

now I usually need 1 submaster page and the FX buttons for an entire show where I control the lights live

[Haytech]

Hi,

as you are telling me so much of your favourite way of programming I would do so too ... should have done before sorry :oops:

 

I use submaster fades for parchases / brightness chases and frontlight.

All the other effects I stored to a memory and named it as what they do i.e.

1. all/tri/circles, 2. all/open/centerstage ... when song starts I type in the number i.e. 2. and press go wehen anything goes to happen I type in number of thing and press go again. so I can have huge variations in the show.

 

regards

[ice]

I've tried working with the memories, but it isn't a really fast way of working with movers. I'm also not that good in remembering where I left everything (and for variation; I do program loads of things). I also can't stand the fact that when you're using the memories you're limited to one chase at a time. For instance; you've got a song which starts rather peacefully... ok you hit a memory which has a position for your movers; and then hit a slow colour-chase... Now when the song starts to build up you want to add a gobo-chase to this for your backlight fixtures; that's impossible without using a sub; hitting another memory will cause the colour-chase to stop again So that's why I'm using the subs quite often.

Another question; do you guys use the group selection button often? I find that patching in a useful way mostly kills the use of that button, cause the normal way of selecting what you want is just as fast. I understand it's useful when you've got 4 pages of movers, but with only one I don't really get the point.

Keep it coming!

[K-Nine]

If you want to be able to run lots of different chases at the same time then as Ice correctly says the submasters are the way to do it.

 

I'm not sure exactly why the playback X only handles 1/2 chases at a time ... that 's one for our software guru to explain

 

When programming submasters (directly or with transferred memories), it is probably best to program them as partial data (eg just colour, beamshape or position).

 

That way you can simply change the colour or position of a number of fixtures without completely changing the overall look on the outputs.

 

On the Mambo Frog the SX buttons can be used in a similar way if required.

[GLX]

A couple of slow colour roles on the pallets also works great & if using mac 250+'s program a pallet with the strobe/reset wheel at dmx 170 great random flashes

[ice]

Don't want roles; want chases which go back & forth the whole time, beat tapped ofcourse ... Same for gobo things... it's too bad a chase is stopped when the sub is down. I know sometimes that's exactly what you want, but it really should be a choice I guess.. it would make things so much easier when for instance such a colour chase keeps on going until you tell it to stop (by selecting something else!). That sort of thing isn't possible I guess?

[Paul]

LTP chases are stopped in the following conditions:

 

1. On the Playback X when the chase is not from the previous / current / next memory.

 

2. On Submasters when the fader is down.

 

As I recall, this was done on purpose in response to early customer feedback, to make the operation of the desk simpler. "All my subs are down, there isn't a chase on the Playback X, yet the motors in my lights are making a noise in my quiet scene!!" type of thing.

 

Maybe these are restrictions that we need to look at changing, to allow more advanced users to use the desk in more powerful ways. However this needs to be done in a way that still allows users who are finding their feet with moving lights, partial programming, LTPs etc to get on with the desk and not get terribly confused about what's going on!

[K-Nine]

In version 9.0 software we deliberately changed the way that chases ran on submasters to give the user more control on starting and stopping them, as well as introducing n-shot chases which several people had asked for

[ice]

Maybe these are restrictions that we need to look at changing, to allow more advanced users to use the desk in more powerful ways. However this needs to be done in a way that still allows users who are finding their feet with moving lights, partial programming, LTPs etc to get on with the desk and not get terribly confused about what's going on!

 

That's a matter of one option like "autostop" in the chase setup. Set to "yes": nothing changes in the way it runs now. Set no "no"; chase won't stop until you select something else for that parameter. That would indeed mean a more advanced way of programming.

 

That's actually might be an idea to consider for the Frog 2. Since you have the normal - superuser mode setup, why not create a third one? That would be: normal - advanced - super user. Normal users use normal mode for easy operating, and quick shows. Advanced users program their shows in advanced mode, and super user stays the same. That would eliminate the problem of "everyone should be able to understand it".