Fat Frog - Movers and Submasters....HELP !

[RCRLIGHTING]

I have a very large show this weekend. This past weekend I noticed some strange behavior with my fixtures.

 

Example:

 

- 3 Chauvet Par 56 LED's...1 assigned to fixture 1, 2 & 3

- 4 Sharpy like movers

 

The Sharpy like movers have all been programmed and built into the memory stack.

 

So....

 

memory #1 = HOME postion

memory #2 = Yellow - Up Position

 

LED's on Submaster 1-1 = Blue

LED's on Submaster 1-2 = Green

LED's on Submaster 1-3 = Yellow

 

Transfer Movers from memory #1 to Submaster 1-12 = HOME

Transfer Movers from memory #2 to Submaster 1-11 = RED - Up Position

 

What is happening is what I have fader 1-11 up for that RED scene, that works ok....no issues.

 

If I move fader or press button 1-1 or 1-2 or 1-3, the mover on 1-11 changes position and colour. The fixture goes from Yellow to O/W and moves tilt to a down position. This also changes the scene on Submaster 1-1 or 1-2 or 1-3 from it's programmed colour to O/W which is the default colour when the LED's are homed based on the fixture profile loaded into the console.

 

In short, how do I correct this? Is there something I am doing wrong or do I have to create all the scenes with the movers and LED's then transfer the memory to Submaster?

 

Any help would be great.

 

Rejean

[kgallen]

Sounds like you have the desk in "Full" mode, when you needed to use "Partial" mode when programming and only tag the fixture attributes you wanted to record to that sub/memory.

 

In Full Mode, when you record a memory or sub, *everything* will get recorded. This means every light and fixture will change to the state it was when you hit the Program button. In Partial Mode, you can decide what is recorded (e.g. just a colour change on a particular fixture) without the colour or position moving on another "unrelated" fixture. In Partial Mode you "tag" the attributes of a fixture you want to record in that sub/memory.

 

Suggest you use Partial Mode with Tracking On(--) with s/w version 10.12.

 

Have a look at the Manual and Release Notes for s/w 10.9 onwards for details on Tracking and tagging. If you then need more help, post again on this thread then we can elaborate once you've understood some of the basics of Partial Mode programming. Partial Mode is a whole new world of "advanced" programming so you've got a bit of a learning curve to climb for this weekend (well you would have if you are old like me!).

 

Once you've set the desk to Partial Mode you'll need to re-program the cues where you need to set the tagging more fine grained.

 

Note if you subsequently change the desk mode from Partial to Full you'll lose all of that fine grained tag information, so don't!

 

I'd also recommend you have the latest software, 10.12, on the desk. 10.9 would be the earliest you'd want to be if you are reluctant to upgrade just before your show.

 

Kevin

 

Original Manual is here (talks about Partial but not Tracking). I'd just use this as an intro to Partial Mode, then read the Release Notes for 10.8 onwards for the details of how things work now, as a lot of functionality has been added in this area 10.8 thru 10.12 s/w releases:

http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/51/58/frog-range-operating-manual-issue-6-en

 

Release Notes are here, there are good sections to read for 10.8 onwards:

http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/GetAttachment/56/554

 

10.12 software download is here:

http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/56/256/frog-range-operating-software-release-1012

[RCRLIGHTING]

Thank you very much....will let you know what happens.

 

Rejean

[kgallen]

Just to add, there is only one occasion when you *have* to programme a memory and transfter to a submaster, and that is when a chase is required to be run from the submaster. For a chase, a submaster has to reference ("point at") a memory that is of type chase (as opposed to of type scene). For anything else you can programme to the submaster directly or programme to a memory as required.

 

Further to my advice on using tracking, since I don't know how you'll run the show, I'll add the following comments:

 

- if you are intending to run a stack based cue list (using the Go button to step along a series of programmed memories), then I advise Partial Mode, Tracking On(--), ReplayTag Add

 

- if you are programming a set of "unrelated" memories and submasters and intend to recall them in a non-sequential way (busking with a set of "partial looks" in memories and on one or more submasters), then you probably want Partial Mode, Tracking Off, ReplayTag Replace.

 

These suggestions come from the typical usage scenarios discussed in the Release Notes and mapping the desk setup to your intended playback style.

 

Make sure you have a monitor attached, and make a note of the different colours used for various meanings (magenta, yellow, grey etc).

 

Good luck!

[kgallen]

Here are some "crib sheet" labels I drew up for my Fat Frog.

 

I couldn't upload the Excel XLS, so attached is a pdf instead, of tables you can cut out and stick on. There are 3 tables, one for below the finger wheels, one for the fixture select buttons, one for the monitor.

frog_crib_sheet.pdf

[RCRLIGHTING]

Thank You very much for the additional clarification. I rechecked the desk last night and this is the infor I have:

 

Software Version: 10.12.1 (OS updated in 2013)

 

Desk Setup:

---> Program Mode: FULL

 

When I press the "-" button, the following information displays:

---> Mode: Partial

---> Tracking: ON

---> Replay Tag: Add

---> Brightness: All

---> Beamshape: Channel

---> Position: Channel

 

I will mess around with this again tonight.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Rejean

[kgallen]

If you decide to use Tracking, and you're going to run a sequential stack, you might want to change the Tracking section to "On(--)" [when you've just changed to Partial, do v (down) key, then + key]. This makes sure that for (usually early) cues, all fixtures have a known value which is tracked from "Memory 0" (which will contain fixture home values), otherwise if you for example finish programming then go back to the first memory and run, you will get an incorrect picture of any fixtures not tagged when you programmed that first memory, because those fixtures will "stay where they were" (which is the whole point of partial/tagging) - and the next day when you come in, restart the desk and start your show, they won't actually look like that! This may/hopefully force you, in the first memory, to tag all fixtures/attributes to be sure your first "stage picture" looks exactly as you want.

 

Hope that makes some sense!

[kgallen]

I just clarified a few words in my initial post. I just want you to be clear that just by changing the mode to Partial, everything doesn't suddenly become ok. You have to go back and programme your cues/states (memories or submasters, however you're playing this) in Partial mode, managing the tagging status of the fixture attributes to only record what you want to actually be affected by triggering the memory or submaster.

 

Hopefully you are already familiar with the concepts of HTP (highest takes precedence) and LTP (latest takes precedence). If not, you've got a bit more learning to do. Here are a couple of articles I just googled:

 

http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/learn-stage-lighting/htp-vs-ltp-lighting-desk-basics-5/

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/Highest_Takes_Precedence

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/Latest_Takes_Precedence

https://www.etcconnect.com/uploadedFiles/Main_Site/Documents/Public/White_Papers/White_Paper_Control_Philosophy_revA.pdf (not everything in here is relevant/supported on the Fat Frog so don't get too heavy into this one!)

 

If we step aside from Tracking a moment which can change things slightly, then your brightness channels (generics [on the faders] plus the brightness channels of fixtures [those managed under the 12 buttons on the right of the desk]) would use HTP, and your colour/beamshape/position channels (or attributes as I should say more correctly) of the fixtures will use a LTP philosophy. Tagging allows you to control if a new "latest" instruction is sent to the fixture when the memory/sub is triggered. (If you set Brightness: Channel in the programming mode this also extends to the generics. This would be a full-blown Tracking setup, although there are some limitations on the Fat Frog, see my own posts in this section of the forum...).

 

Sorry if this was already clear to you, in which case you're probably well into reconstructing your programming!

[RCRLIGHTING]

Good Morning kgallen,

 

Every little bit helps in this case. I'm an old school LD and just recently over the last few years got back into the business. In short, my shows are not complicated. I work with a KISS Tribute, BON JOVI Tribute, Journey Tribute and soon to be a Fournier Tribute. Straight ahead rock & roll...nothing fancy. I think I will be able to get away with some additional topics you covered in this thread, it looks like I will have to start from scratch after the holidays....have lots of time until the shows start up again. Will let you know what happens......

 

Rejean