Position Pallets

[keredyelesob]

Hi, I have noticed since updating my desk to V7.8 the position pallets have now started recording the P/T speed and intensity with the pallet, I am sure this never used to be the case as it is quite annoying having the intensity of my movers change when I just want to reposition the fixtures onto a new area of the stage. Currently I am having to untag the intensity and the P/T speed to stop the pallets recording the parameter (that is if a remember to untag them) can the next release include an option to stop the position pallets tagging the intensity like it used to be please.

[mikeb]

Hiya,

 

In the palettes icons I expect you are seeing IBP - Intensity, Beamshape and Palette?

 

I raised the same to Jon and a fault has been raised.

 

If I remember correctly, this is a feature for the Orb but not the Solution and is only seen if you have the desk in the "Tracking - Advanced" mode. I need to check my emails, but until a fix is available, you could try removing the SMART tagging option whilst recording the palettes which, I believe, will ensure just the individual palette options you are wanting to program are recorded.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

[Edit] I have checked and this is what I was sent;

ZOS-5698 Palettes on Solution record ICBPE info with Smart Tag

This is only when in Tracking Mode, with Smart Tag enabled. A quick work around is to disable Smart Tag.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

[keredyelesob]

Hi bullocmg I have just noticed the position pallet records colour as well, I see from your edit that you where told that pallets are recording all attributes , is this a bug that will be fixed in the next release, it is not a new feature?

[Jon Hole]

Hi bullocmg I have just noticed the position pallet records colour as well, I see from your edit that you where told that pallets are recording all attributes , is this a bug that will be fixed in the next release, it is not a new feature?

 

Hi,

 

Sorry for the delay in our "official reply" to this one.

 

Yes, if Smart Tag is enabled, there is a bug where all tagged parameters will be recorded into palettes, not just the parameters in the attribute you are recording.

 

There will be a fix in the next software update which we are currently testing.

[keredyelesob]

Do you know when a fix will be made available for this. I am still having to run V7.7 and now this is causing problems with ignoring some pre-set slider values. (i have raised in another thread still pending a response)

[Jon Hole]

Hi keredyelesob, this only happens if "Smart Tag" is enabled, so you can either turn off Smart Tag when recording your palette, or you can untag the parameters you don't want by holding down CLEAR and moving the wheel.

 

Best regards

 

Jon

[keredyelesob]

So is this no longer being treated as a bug? I can work around the problem as this work around was pointed out by MikeB, although I find it a lot easier to just use the outdated version of Zeros as I often forget to un-tag or disable smart tag. I was just wondering when we would see the fix. if it is not getting fixed i know not to bother upgrading.

I don't suppose if you know if this is a problem with the Orb desks as I was looking at also stocking these in the new year?

[ziglight]

So is this no longer being treated as a bug?

personally I don't see this behaviour as un "bug"

for me it's even a very good thing that I have the choice (if I really want) to record multiples parameters in a palette (regardless if its coulour, beamshape or position)

I love the feature and use it for my shows !!

 

and anyway with tagging or untagging you still have full control of what is recorded or not recorded !!!

[keredyelesob]

the main point with this behaviour on the solution is that the pallets are grouped into position, beam shape and colour, but irrespective of what type of pallet you are in it records all parameters.

 

I would expect that if you are in the position pallets it should only record the position parameters (no including intensity), when in the beam shape pallets the desk should only record the beam shape parameters. like wise for colour. the problem I have is that all of this information is being recording against the pallet irrespective of what group you are in.

 

for instance in the latest version if I have programmed a scene using position, colour and beam shape and I want to record that position as a pallet for later use I then have to un-tag 17 Parameters just to ensure I only record the X,Y position.

 

This I would say is a bug, otherwise these are not pallets grouped by parameter type, they are just UDKs to recall a scene for the selected fixtures.

 

If it is no longer being treated as a bug then may be the hardware layout will need changing to reflect this change. (a position pallet is no longer controlling just the position it is controlling everything)

 

Although this Just my thoughts and I may be wrong, just seems very bizarre.

[Jon Hole]

On ORB Series, the default is that "Position" only stores position parameters, "Colour" only stores colour parameters and "Beamshape" only stores beamshape parameters.

However, there is a Record Window which you don't get on Solution, and within that window you can change settings to record anything anywhere. This is very useful in some situations, like including Focus into a Position Palette, or changing the colour to white in your Custom Glass Gobo palette (which already has colours in it).

 

In the next software update this will be "fixed" so it's back to how it was.

[keredyelesob]

Thanks for clearing the confusion, I will look forward to the fix again.

[ziglight]

What some people see as a "bug", other people see as a "feature"!

I personally love the possibility and the choice to record foreign parameters into a pallet - if I want to do that ! (...or not if I woun't...)

and for me this thing is definitely not a bug but a feature !!

 

for example, recoding a position pallet (advanced tracking mode):

when you first record a position pallet, no matter which other parameters are tagged, only the two position parameters PAN en TILT are recorded into the pallet and the pallet is labeled "P" for Position

the exactly same thing happens with Beamshape , labeled "B" and Color "C" and effect "E"...

 

in advanced-tracking mode, only the parameters of that particular group are recorded (nothing else) and the palette is labeled with only one single label !!

(but when in Smart-Tag mode, then all tagged parameters are recorded !)

 

now here it comes :

when you edit your allready created pallet by "load and update", now when updating your pallet all tagged parameters are recorded into this pallet and new labels appear (depending of the tagged parameters so I or B or C may be added)

 

if I don't want to add, say colour-tagging to my updating and say I am to lazy to have a look at the tagged parameters I just hit "clear" and "color" key together and all colour parameters are untagged......!! (and so not recorded into the pallet)

or just use "merge" instead of "update" ! and no "foreign parameters" are recorded ! (as it seems that only "update" permits to record foreign parameters into pallets)

 

this feature is very very powerfull and personally I love it really !!

 

if you don't want foreign parameter record into your pallets just create a new one instead of editing an existing one !! -> or use "merge" for editing !

and if you need to edit an existing pallet (because it is used in Subs or memories) just untag the not wanted parameters (globally or individually !) before updating or use merging instead !!!

 

it goes even further : if by accident you have recorded foreign parameters into a specific pallet, say "C" parameters into a position pallet (wich now is labeled "PC", you just have to "LOAD" this pallet hit the keys "CLEAR+COLOUR" and hit UPDATE !! correction is done and the pallet is now labeled by a single "P"

 

=>> remember: when "SMART TAG" is enabled, than all foreign tagged parameters are recorded directly into a pallet !!

so its up to you to use SMART-TAG- TRACKING or ADVANCED-TRACKING depending of what you want to do !! => pallet recording works different in either mode !!

 

and concerning pallet-recording, personnaly I prefer to have the choice instead of not having the choice at all !!!

And I would be interested to know of what other users think about this feature (or this bug... depending on their viewing-point !!)

 

and personnaly I really woun't miss that powerfull feature !!!

[keredyelesob]

I agree being able to store multiple parameter groups in a palette could be useful but Ziglight's method if recording pallets is over complicate, by mixing/changing what the desk is actually recoding (tagged or default) parameters is crazy, I can only imagine the support calls this would create.

 

a more intuitive interface like a trimmed down version of the orbs record options I think is needed. if not a 'record options' pop up then simply by holding shift down all tagged parameters are recorded otherwise only the default parameters in that group are recorded. this I feel is more intuitive as it is not moving the functionality away from the original method (and not confusing new inexperienced users) whilst still giving the other users the features you so like.

 

 

On ORB Series, the default is that "Position" only stores position parameters, "Colour" only stores colour parameters and "Beamshape" only stores beamshape parameters.

However, there is a Record Window which you don't get on Solution, and within that window you can change settings to record anything anywhere.

[ziglight]

 

I agree being able to store multiple parameter groups in a palette could be useful but Ziglight's method if recording pallets is over complicate,

is it really too over-complicated that one must decide if working in "Smart-Tag Mode" or "Advanced Trackin Mode" ???

what kind of "over complication" is such a choice ?? (you prefer no choice to make it easy ? )

as I said : in Advanced Trackin mode no foreign parameters are recorded into pallets (with possibilité to add them later-on by udating, if I wish so...

and in Smart-Tag mode they are included while recording (if not untagged before record)

 

and I really believe that this behaviour is a real feature => a feature that I, personnaly, woun't miss !!!

 

but I agree also that the best way for everybody would be to have an option (via shift-key or others) if this is possible for this desk (the Solution) - and if the developer-team would agree to add this option !

[Jon Hole]

Hi all,

 

There is a conversation in the Beta Software forum about how we move forward with this. I'd like to keep that conversation going over there for those involved in development and testing (which ziglight and keredyelesob both are).

 

However, just to sum up this conversation - this will be returning to how it used to be (so Colour Palettes only contain colour parameters etc) but we are looking into a way that brings the additional functionality in a much simpler, quicker and more flexibly way.

 

I'm going to close this topic for now. Feel free to open up a new topic for any new feature requests or ideas.