johnb Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Hi. I am hoping someone can help as I am getting fairly confused.... I am using a fat Frog driving 4 Mac250's and 4 Mac300's. The desk is in partial mode, and the Macs are all defined as fixtures and run happily. The problem I am having is with trying to program the submasters with information about only some of the fixtures (for example a predefined position). Some of the time the desk does what I expect and only records the tagged fixtures and the selected attributes (eg position only), however sometimes it records the information for all the fixtures whether they were selected or not. As far as i can tell I have been doing the same thing each time, so I can't get my head around why it works sometime and why it doesn't. Any help on this would be appreciated. Cheers john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nine Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Firstly, there is an important difference between selected and tagged. Selected - the red LED in the fixture selection button is lit Tagged - the yellow LED in the fixture selection button is flashing. When you press the Program button to save the fixture data into a memory or submaster, only the tagged fixtures will be saved into the data. It is the tag state of the fixture that is important, not whether it is actually selected at the time of programming or not. Quote K-Nine : Technically Advanced Roving Dog In Space Bran Media | Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted February 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Doh! I knew I was missing something obvious. Because someone else showed me the basics of the desk I had assumed that tagging and selecting where the same thing, now I know what to look for I have just found the difference in the manual (yes i had read it, just not that page)! Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nine Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 No problem, I can see how that (incorrect) assumption could have been made, if you are new to partial programming, tagging and moving fixtures Just shows the benefit of reading the manual Quote K-Nine : Technically Advanced Roving Dog In Space Bran Media | Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Linked with that. WHat happens exactly if you program in full mode??? How do you put desk into full mode??? Cheers Sam Quote Sam for a interactive training suport program on how to use your fat frog effectivly why not look at my frog training program- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nine Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 What happens exactly if you program in full mode??? When you program in Full Mode - all parameters of all fixtures will be recorded into memories, submasters or SX buttons. It is effectively a snapshot of all the DMX outputs. How do you put desk into full mode??? Super User - Desk Setup - Program Mode Note - it is recommended that you set up the desk in the required mode before programming any memories, submasters etc. Quote K-Nine : Technically Advanced Roving Dog In Space Bran Media | Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 OK- Having programmed in full ever since I started using the desk (about 4 months ago) I feel I am competent on using all of its features apart from I am still having problems with Partial Memories on Submasters. From what I can gather from playing, instruction manual and other posts Partial Memoories can be used to record just one antribute (say colour) and then can be mixed with other Partial Memories (using subs) to create different effects for instance; Page1-Sub1- Intensity Full Page1-Sub2- Colour 178 (blue) Page1-Sub3- Fixed Gobo 167 (clouds) When I mix Sub One and Sub two I will get Full Intesity Blue. Is this correct?? If so how do I do it?? Also when I program it onto a sub do I have to set intesity to the correct ammount when programming sub one and two or shall I just leave it at 0 so I can mix it with sub one. I am so confused?? Hope I have made sense. I have got a show very soon which I am going to be primerily busking using the subs so I really need some help on this one. Ta Guys, Sam Quote Sam for a interactive training suport program on how to use your fat frog effectivly why not look at my frog training program- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nine Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 When programming submasters with fixture data in partial mode there are a few important things to remember: Fixture brightness (intensity) is ALWAYS recorded regardless of the selection or tagged state of the fixtures. If you don't want the brightness to appear on the submaster, ensure it is set to zero when you press Program. When programming colour, beamshape and position fixture data onto submasters, ensure that the required fixtures are TAGGED (yellow LEDs flashing) before pressing Program. LTP parameters (colour, beamshape, position), are output on a submaster when the submaster fader is raised above the LTP trigger level. This level can be set individually for each submaster as required. Right, now for your specific case: Press the Submaster button to select the submaster screen and set the page to page 1. Select submaster 1-1 on the submasters screen. Select the required fixtures and set their brightness/intensity to full using the wheel; ensure the fixtures are NOT tagged. Press Program. Select submaster 1-2 on the submasters screen. Select the required fixtures and set to the required colour using the wheel (you will have to output the brightness to see the lights). If you only want to record the colour and NOT the intensity, lower the intensity to zero, then hold down the Colour button and press Program. Select submaster 1-3 on the submasters screen. Select the required fixtures and set to the required gobo using the wheel (you will have to output the brightness to see the lights). If you only want to record the beamshape and NOT the intensity, lower the intensity to zero, then hold down the Beamshape button and press Program. Quote K-Nine : Technically Advanced Roving Dog In Space Bran Media | Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Ok, I have done that but what I want to do is sort of mix and match so put intesity to full and colour and beamshape but as soon as I put the beamshaoe up it cancels out the colour?? How can I get arround this one? Sam Quote Sam for a interactive training suport program on how to use your fat frog effectivly why not look at my frog training program- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nine Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Sounds like the sub with the beamshape data also has colour programmed, so it is going to different values when you output the sub. Check the C|B|P columns on the Submasters Screen on the monitor to see if they contain data. To record only beamshape ensure that you are holding down the Beamshape key when you press program. Quote K-Nine : Technically Advanced Roving Dog In Space Bran Media | Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Sounds like the sub with the beamshape data also has colour programmed, so it is going to different values when you output the sub. Check the C|B|P columns on the Submasters Screen on the monitor to see if they contain data. To record only beamshape ensure that you are holding down the Beamshape key when you press program. Right In wasn't holding down Beamshape when programming!! :!: :!: OK- What if I wanted to when programming the sub not make it relate to one particular fixture and then when I play it back get it to apply only to the fixtures I have selected/ tagged??? Is this possible?? Sam Quote Sam for a interactive training suport program on how to use your fat frog effectivly why not look at my frog training program- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Also K-9, I have been using my Phantom to test this because I'm not near a desk at the mo but when I take the colour Sub out, the output screen still seems to show the colour as being in. Would this be viable, if so how can I get rid of it??? So many questions, so little time!!! Ta for replies so far Sam Quote Sam for a interactive training suport program on how to use your fat frog effectivly why not look at my frog training program- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nine Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 OK- What if I wanted to when programming the sub not make it relate to one particular fixture and then when I play it back get it to apply only to the fixtures I have selected/ tagged??? Is this possible?? Sam With the current software you either program all the fixtures onto the submaster (full mode) or just the fixtures you have tagged (partial) When playing back in full mode all fixtures will be output, in partial mode only the programmed (tagged) fixtures will be output. These are the only two alternatives, so I guess the answer to your question is no. However, using palettes, you could program all the fixtures into a colour, beamshape or position palette, but only output selected ones. For example - say you had 10 fixtures - set them all to 'red' and program that into colour palette 1. Home all the fixtures - so they all go to open white. Select fixtures 1 - 3 and output colour palette 1 - Just fixtures 1-3 will go red. Quote K-Nine : Technically Advanced Roving Dog In Space Bran Media | Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nine Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Also K-9, I have been using my Phantom to test this because I'm not near a desk at the mo but when I take the colour Sub out, the output screen still seems to show the colour as being in. Would this be viable, if so how can I get rid of it??? So many questions, so little time!!! Ta for replies so far Sam When you output colour, beamshape or position fixture parameters via a submaster (or any other playback method) the LTP channels are triggered and go to their programmed values. The LTP channels will remain at those values until told to do something else by the desk - this could be by outputting a memory from the playback x, raising a submaster, pressing an SX button (mambo) outputting a palette, homing the fixture, or adjusting the parameters with the wheels. With LTP channels the desk does not record a history of what causes the channels to go to what values and therefore there is no concept of undoing the LTP actions. When you raise a submaster, the colour parameters (for example) will go to their programmed levels when triggered - lowering the submaster will NOT affect the colour levels. The submaster does not know - or in fact need to know, what values the colour parameters were before it was raised - it only contains information on what to set the parameters to when raised. Quote K-Nine : Technically Advanced Roving Dog In Space Bran Media | Myspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Also K-9, I have been using my Phantom to test this because I'm not near a desk at the mo but when I take the colour Sub out, the output screen still seems to show the colour as being in. Would this be viable, if so how can I get rid of it??? So many questions, so little time!!! Ta for replies so far Sam When you output colour, beamshape or position fixture parameters via a submaster (or any other playback method) the LTP channels are triggered and go to their programmed values. The LTP channels will remain at those values until told to do something else by the desk - this could be by outputting a memory from the playback x, raising a submaster, pressing an SX button (mambo) outputting a palette, homing the fixture, or adjusting the parameters with the wheels. With LTP channels the desk does not record a history of what causes the channels to go to what values and therefore there is no concept of undoing the LTP actions. When you raise a submaster, the colour parameters (for example) will go to their programmed levels when triggered - lowering the submaster will NOT affect the colour levels. The submaster does not know - or in fact need to know, what values the colour parameters were before it was raised - it only contains information on what to set the parameters to when raised. So i short there is no way that I can do this??? Thanks for clarifying that Sam Quote Sam for a interactive training suport program on how to use your fat frog effectivly why not look at my frog training program- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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