SX Buttons

[lxkev]

4get what i said above....coz basicly you already do it on the mambo frog with the SX playbacks!!!! why cant we have them on the frogs?

 

it could work in this fashion.....select brightness attribute button, lock it, then the flash buttons become sx playbacks....

 

i assume that the sx buttons only store fixture data...which is fine....

 

what do you think?

[K-Nine]

The SX Buttons on the Mambo Frog serve two main purposes:

 

1. They are SX buttons, which are essentially faderless submasters. Channel and fixture data can be loaded directly onto them or memories transferred onto them in exactly the same way as submasters. The action of each button determines how the data is output when the SX button is pressed.

 

2. They are used as the palette selection/output buttons in exactly the same way that the channel flash buttons are used on the other desks in the frog series.

 

Edit: Woh, just realised that this is my 500th post ... think I'll have a coffee to celbrate

[lxkev]

could this be implemented onto the bullfrog etc.....

 

That way we can control generics on the subs, and fixtures on the sx buttons.....it a pain in the **** when u want to snap from 1 sub to another.....sx buttons would be really nice!!!!!!

[NZ]

What buttons do you see as being SX buttons on a Bullfrog?

[lxkev]

The flash buttons!!! We could access them in the same manor as colour pallets. But we select the brightness attribute...thus giving 48 sx buttons on the bullfrog..

[K-Nine]

So the 9 pages (soon to be 20 pages) of 24 submasters is not sufficient for your needs on the Bull Frog then :evil:

 

Using the Brightness button to change the channel flash buttons to SX buttons probably would work, as far as outputting the SX buttons goes

 

However, the problem is, that for the user interface and software to be consistent across the entire frog range (and anything else would be asking for trouble), you would also need an SX button like on the Mambo Frog, which is used to display the SX screen on the LCD/Monitor and is required when programming/editing the SX buttons 8O

[lxkev]

well, what if some one uses a hires a mabo frog...but the next time he/she hires...that get a bullfrog coz they need real faders.....2 discover that there's no sx????

 

Therfore the range is not consistent....

 

couldn't a function button (or combination be used)?

 

and i'm sure that some of the first frog desks didn't have a home button (or something)...those desks ended up using the function buttons for it?

[K-Nine]

I said that the user interface and software for each feature across the range has to be consistent.

 

The feature set provided on each desk in the range does not have to be the same.

 

That is why the mambo was specifically developed. The Mambo was designed for a different market which required more fixtures, but did not want preset faders for controlling individual generic dimmer channels.

 

Therefore the desks in the Frog range have feature sets to cater for different user requirements:

 

Frog - Generic Channels Only - No moving fixtures

 

Fat Frog, Leap Frog, Bull Frog - Generics + Fixtures to suit different size venues.

 

Mambo Frog - No Generic Channels - loads of fixtures.

 

The specifications of the desks in the range are quite clear, and although frog show files can be ported between different desks, the software will only load that information applicable to the feature set it provides.

 

Consider you hire a car with a CD player and cassette player. Later you hire a cheaper model which only has a cassette player, you can't play your CD's in it ... that's life

[Yves]

Consider you hire a car with a CD player and cassette player. Later you hire a cheaper model which only has a cassette player, you can't play your CD's in it ... that's life

 

nice one

[lxkev]

a CD player dont affect the way you control the car!!!!

 

and actualy you can control Generic on the Mambo Frog...make a fixture with just 1 dmx channel

[K-Nine]

and actualy you can control Generic on the Mambo Frog...make a fixture with just 1 dmx channel

 

There's already several single brightness channel or generic fixtures in the fixture library

 

What I meant about the Mambo was that it doesn't have dedicated preset faders to control generic channels like the other desks in the Frog series.

[lxkev]

fair Enough

[ice]

So the 9 pages (soon to be 20 pages) of 24 submasters is not sufficient for your needs on the Bull Frog then :evil:

 

What I find to be te problem is the ammount of subs one can use at the same time, 12 isn't that much when you're working with, say, 4 different fixtures types, which u want to program type-wise, giving all fix. some chases in color, some in gobo, and of course some movement. Maybe even brightness! Outputting those will result in 4 subs up, and only 8 left for 3 different types; see where I'm going?

 

If any other operator has brilliant ideas about programming this way, let me know!! I really gave this problem a lot of thought, but don't seem to come up with any other solution than combining or losing stuff.

[lxkev]

Exactly that’s why I mentioned the sx buttons on the other frogs....if we have a combination of sx and subs...It would give us so much flexibility...

 

Surly it can’t be that difficult to re-write the block of program code that allows sx buttons on the mambo...to work on the other frogs??

U already said

 

"Using the Brightness button to change the channel flash buttons to SX buttons probably would work, as far as outputting the SX buttons goes"

 

And

 

"would also need an SX button like on the Mambo Frog" F4 will do the job!!!

 

If we had a poll on this (sx buttons, and the above method of accessing it)....and most users like the idea...would u consider it?

 

I've got say when the next update comes out..I’l be more then happy :-)...

will the offline editor be updated?

[NZ]

Hi

 

This won't happen in the next update unless you want to keep waiting for it for ever...every time we finish specing something we seem to add to it.

 

I can see why you would like this feature but I do think that it starts to blur what the desks are about. It is a feature that will use buttons in a way that is unusual and does not fit with the what they are labled for or meant for. It will also eat up memories. We are giving you 20 subs in the next release, will this not go a long way to answering your problems. On a Fat Frog doing what you suggest will only give you an additional 24 looks.

[K-Nine]

Just a few points before we wrap this topic up and put it to bed ...

 

As NZ said, the SX buttons were designed specifically as a feature on the Mambo Frog.

 

Yes, the software could be made to provide SX buttons on the other desks in the range, but this is not what they were designed for.

 

You start getting major overload of the channel flash buttons ie they now function as channel selection, channel flash, colour palette, beamshape palette, position palette, group or SX button depending on the screen you are in and which other button is pressed.

 

As I said previously to provide the same functionality as the Mambo with a similar user interface you also need an SX button (with LED) to provide the programming/editing functionality. On the Fat Frog you could not use the F4 button as this is already used as the Group button. All other Functions keys are also used.

 

What NZ meant was that you will be getting 20 pages of subs in the next update package

 

.. and with that I declare this topic closed

 

[pollywog]

Hello developer team !

 

feature request:

 

SX-Buttons needed at Bull-Frog, Fat-Frog, Frog ...

 

Spec:

 

no Function @ Pallete & Brightnesmaster at release 10.9

--> SX-Button usage: F1 & Brightnes / Brightnes & Button 1..24/48

--> SX-Buttons are related to Pages 1..20 of Submasters.

 

Result in Doing Shows, activated F1&Brighnes you have DIRECT-ACCES to:

1..12/24 Submasters and 1..24/48 SX-Buttons. (20 Pages)

This makes the Frog Range to a powerfull Direct Acces Lighting desk. Having

36/60 ! possibilties to start scenes / pictures / chases with only one click!!!

(with 10.9. it are only the submasters with 12/24 Buttons. this is to less! for all the other

possibilities (pallets, memories) it takes to much time and to much fingers and click

(also no fades) to work)

 

Programming / Editing.

* The SX-Buttons are releated to the Submasters

* If Submaster-Button is activated and you press and hold Brightness and 1..24/48 Button

everyhing tagged ist stored

* Submaster Display in Monitor

--> after the 1..12/24 Submaster informations the 1..24/48 SX-Buttons Informations are added

chosing Submasters: Submasterbotton is activated, press and hold Brigthnes, button 1..24/48

... edit Fadetimes, .... just as done with the Submasters now.

 

 

Why we need this:

If using Movings and generics 12/24 Submasters are to less!

In onetime events with bands with now setlist and not known which song is the next

you have to be very fast in getting what you have in mind and put it to the stage.

 

e.g. they start with smooth song, you have to get a picture with no moves, stopped rotating

Gobos and Prismas, red generics I try to compare with 10.9 and the SX-Buttons:

 

(sory, doing a table here is difficult)

 

goal-----#-------------10.9 (F1 & Pallet is activ)-----#-----SX-Buttons (F1 & Brightness is active)

 

goal pos (*)-----#----[Positon], [15]------------#----------[06]

goal stop rot-----#---[beamshape], [12]-----#------------[13]

goal gobo-----#------[23]---------------------#-------------[18]

goal color-----#------, [22]-----------#-------------[22]

 

--> in 10.9 you have to press 7 Buttons to get the picture to the stage

with the FX-buttons it is done with 4! And (*) your movings are going with a fade

to the destinations!!

 

ok. i can do the fade of the movings with a memory.

pressing e.g [1][0][0][enter][go]

meenig additonal 3 more instead of [position],[15] clicks :-(

 

 

Finaly:

The power of a desk for oparators like me which have lots of one time shows

is to combine the prepared "pallets" of:

color, gobo, goborot, prisma, prismarot,position and fadetime,

effect-speed-sizey/y, effect-rot-angele, strobes,

by just pressing one button !!! for getting the prepared "pallete / sub"

 

--> with the described spec we users get that

--> --> 24/48 additional FX-Buttons

 

this makes live operating much more comfortable.

 

best regards

 

pollywog

 

 

 

 

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