Recording Memories from Subs

[karleaton]

I've been playing with the phantom TL and TLXtra with a view to assessing these desks as possible replacements for an aging Strand LBX. Similar command syntax is great but it doesn't appear that you can use submasters to create an output and record that to a memory.

 

On the LBX I tend to work by setting up submasters for say warm wash, cold wash, window special, etc. Then for each scene I mix and match using the submasters until it looks how I want it and record that to a cue (memory). I know groups sort of allow this but submasters give more flexibility. On my Jester 12/24 you can achieve the desired result by using the copy function in play mode and then pasting in record mode but the TL doesn't seem to support that.

 

Am I missing something obvious or isn't it possible to build a scene using submasters and then record that to a memory?

[Kirkup_xp]

Hi Karl

 

When you move from Run mode to Program Mode on the Jester TL(and TLXtra), the outputs of your channels and fixtures do not change. Therefore, you can set up scenes and tags as required in Run mode, then jump into Program mode to record the cue. So yes, what you ask for is achievable.

 

I hope this helps - if you'd like any more information about the TL or TLXtra, don't hesitate to let me know,

 

Regards,

[karleaton]

Ah ha, I knew I had to be missing something obvious.

 

Thanks for the prompt reply.

 

Oh, by the way how do you use the subs on the TL? Pressing multifunction button acts like the flash button on the TLXtra but is there a way of setting a sub to a given level (as you can with the faders on the TLXtra)? From the manual it appears that this isn't possible without an external wing.

[Kirkup_xp]

Hi Karl

 

To get a 'sub' to a given level you'd need to use a DMX-input desk, or but a TLXtra. The flash buttons can be set to latch rather than flash, if that helps.

 

Peter

[karleaton]

That's what I thought, having read the manual.

 

I was just wondering as the naming of the models suggested that both were stand-alone units and the Xtra gave additional functionality (e.g. an easier way of controlling subs through using faders rather than, say, a key combination).

 

If the basic TL doesn't provide a way of outputting submasters (other than flash/latch) without additional kit then it isn't really stand-alone. I think naming the TLXtra as TL and the TL as TLLite would be more appropriate .

[karleaton]

We have recently purchased a TL Xtra and I have been using it anger for the first time this week setting up a show. I have come across a few niggles:

 

1) You can't use submasters to set up states in program mode. I know I posted about this before and you gave a solution but constantly toggling between play and program modes is tedious, especially as you have to reset the memory number each time before you record. It would be nice to be able to stay in program mode and record memory after memory in sequence. Is there any particular reason why subs couldn't be made available in program mode - they don't seem to have any other purpose assigned to them in this mode?

 

2) The Edit key doesn't seem to work as implied in the manual. If I am play mode and I hit the Edit key, make a change and hit the Edit key again it overwrites the next memory and not the current one (e.g. if current memory is 5 and next is 6 and you press Edit, adjust the levels and press edit again it will be memory 6 that gets updated with the changed version of memory 5).

 

The manual says -

 

"This button loads the currently selected item onto the outputs for editing. If it is a

chase, then the chase is run. When EDIT is active, the LED in the button is lit. To

save changes back to the original location, simply press the button again, and the

LED will go out."

 

Which would be much better than what actually happens.

 

3) You can't enter a title for a memory before it's programmed but as soon as you hit record you get stepped to the next memory. A small point but having to skip backwards to input the title for each memory you record gets irritating.

 

I should say that other than these points (and possibly the absence of blind editing and blind setting of fade times) I find the desk very easy to use and it does everything that we need of it.

[Paul]

Thanks for the comments. We have logged them for consideration in future software updates. Here are the reference numbers...

 

JES-2956 - Allow submaster faders to play back submasters in Program Mode on the JesterTLXtra.

 

JES-2957 - Make it easier to name memories after programming them (undo auto-increment if Left or Right cursor is pressed).

 

JES-2454 - Blind Edit.

 

JES-515 - Numeric Entry of Fade Times (this will allow them to be changed blind).

 

The EDIT button description you quoted comes from the Program Mode section in the manual section. The Run Mode section reads:

 

EDIT

The EDIT button also works in RUN Mode, to allow the selected memory/submaster to be quickly edited. When pressed, the desk will temporarily change to PROGRAM Mode. Once edits have been saved, the desk will automatically return to RUN Mode.

 

It is the selected memory/submaster (yellow bar on monitor screen) that is edited, not the current memory (green bar on monitor screen).

 

In software version 2.4 we added programmable fade times on Submasters, which gives greater flexibility when playing them back from the Multi-Function-Keys.

[karleaton]

If I had to choose one thing to change it would be the ability to use subs in program mode (JES-2956). I have been showing a couple of people how the desk works and they have both picked up on the same thing.

 

The thing with the edit key caught me out during a final dress rehearsal when I needed to tweak a level. I hit Edit made the change hit Edit again and overwrote the following memory by mistake. Using Edit in Record mode outputs the selected memory and allows it to be edited. Pressing it in Play mode leaves the current memory on the outputs and then saves the changes to the selected memory.

 

Having noticed that I had overwritten the wrong cue ("Why does the preview look exactly like the current outputs? Oh ****!") I realised there was no way of correcting the mistake - which was were the desire for blind editing cropped up!

 

What's worse I've since repeated the same error several times . I've now adopted the policy of tweaking by switching to Program mode, selecting the required memory and then using Edit. That way the worst I can do is output the wrong memory which is better than overwriting the wrong one. Guess that one goes down as user error!!!

[Paul]

When you press EDIT in Run Mode, the desk is *supposed* to load the selected memory/submaster onto the outputs ready for editing, just like it does in Program Mode. This used to work in version 1.0, but got broken as a side-effect of another change in version 1.1 :-(

 

JES-2959 - Editing from Run Mode doesn't load the selected memory/submaster as intended.

 

This bug will be fixed in the next release.

[karleaton]

Ah! that makes sense.

 

If it was me I'd still have the Edit work on the current memory rather than the selected one as I'm most likely to want to tweak the one I'm currently looking at rather than the next one. And being a dipstick I'll probably forget back-step the selection to the current memory before editing. But that's just me !

[karleaton]

Further thought - would it be possible to have the SHIFT + EDIT allow editing of the current memory instead of the selected? Not sure how difficult this would be to implement.

[Nodmoz]

5 years later and you still can't use subs in the program mode, come on Zero88, get it together!