Non-Dim

[Paul]

As Jon says, it's not recommended to run moving lights from dimmer outputs.

 

Firstly, triac dimmers do not conduct for the full mains cycle, even with a 100% control input. There's always a few volts either side of the null where the triac does not conduct. This "few volts" is a deliberate design feature to prevent the triac from conducting into the next mains cycle and creating a flicker, a particular problem when dimming reactive loads.

 

Secondly, good old human error. One day someone will repatch your dimmers, or change the switch law, and boom...

 

We now offer the Switch6. Virtually identical to a Rack6, but instead of triacs inside, it has 6 heavy duty relays. Available with all the usual socket options, it's ideal for switching power to moving lights.

[Haytech]

John and Paul are right not to power inductive loads like movinglight ballast with dimmers.

[stagefrog]

I would like to return to the original request of jxgriffi.

 

I was once in a similar situation. I had to program and run a show for a disco. But we hadn't only lights on the stage, there were some lights for the ambient light and the bar as well.

I really missed a "Park Function" in order to park the ambient light and bar light to a certain level.

 

For me it would be fine if it's possible to park some of the DMX-Channels at a specific level (not only 0% or Full)!

 

Regards

stagefrog

[K-Nine]

In the absence of a park function, you could always program the state of the ambient lights directly onto a submaster and just leave that raised

[Haytech]

Dear K-Nine,

please remember that those values outputted from submasters will be recorded to the memories, chasers submasters.

It would be very cool when channel fixture is parked it wouldn´t be recognised by programming any more.

So we can turn worklights on, while programming the show.

Its just a suggestion and I think it deserved to have a look into this

[K-Nine]

I see your point Haytech, but the way the Park function works on the Frog 2 desk is that it freezes the outputs of the fixture.

 

Parameters of that fixture may still be programmed into cues etc, or not as required, at any level, by the user. You just don't see the outputs change live since they are frozen.

[NZ]

If you want to do what Haytech wants we will do this on the Frog 2 by allowing you to put lights into areas. So you could make your working lights 1 area and the lights for the show another. Then when recording something you could decide which areas to include in the cue.

[stagefrog]

So, if I understand it right, it wouldn't be possible to realize such a park-function for the frog range of consoles?

[Haytech]

Hi NZ, K-Nine

The area thing sounds very near to that I want to achieve, is there a way to have a function of fixtures in another area ?

Maybe the LampOn / Reset functions ... to prevent them to be activated by accident.

A channel park and exclude could be very powerful tool for all the desks.

 

@stagefrog:

don´t be that pessimistic on that point - I´m sure zero88 will investigate some time on this point when F² runs and they got the time for such a big thing. It´s a main function when it is possible it would take many time to implement it into the existing software.

[Gabzqc]

Heres something novel, why not set your dimmers to "freeze DMX" when they lose signal, then unplug the desk from the dimmers when you want to "Park" the Generics...

 

admittantly this won't work for the ML's but if thats what you want... ( i know it can be done on our Chilli Pro's...

 

gab

[stagefrog]

But this don't solve the problem.

If you unplug the desk from the dimmers, then you can't control the "non-parked" channels either. And what would you do, if the dimmers can't be set to "freeze DMX"?

 

stagefrog

[Paul]

So, if I understand it right, it wouldn't be possible to realize such a park-function for the frog range of consoles?

don´t be that pessimistic on that point - I´am sure zero88 will investigate some time on this point when F² runs and they got the time for such a big thing. It´s a main function when it is possible it would take many time to implement it into the existing software.

Of course it is possible to implement this and indeed any other feature on the Frog desks. However whether it can be integrated in an easily accessible way with the existing user interface controls is another matter We're also not going to add for free to Frog1 every feature that is available on the Frog2 or anybody else's premium products. There's a balance between making Frog1's more saleable and un-selling Frog2's !!

[Haytech]

We're also not going to add for free to Frog1 every feature that is available on the Frog2

 

As I read your reaction on my post - my suggestion isn´t a feature of the F² now - indeed you can park a fixture and you can create areas which can be excluded but you can´t exclude single channels from programming - please correct me if I´m wrong.

 

If I could I would be the first to buy a F² I love the desk and it´s functions but I also love the Frog series desks.

[Spotter]

Hey all,

 

I probably have looked over it in the manual, but is it possible to make one of the preset faders 'switch' instead of fade? So when you are below 50%, the dmx value will be 0, otherwise it is 255. I know this is possible on the Lightmaster XL(S) (yes I am in the 'lucky' position still using them) and I would like to know if this is possible on the FatFrog.

 

Thanks,

 

Jurgen

[Tempiz]

hi, i installed a fat Frog into a hotel function room 2 years ago. they now want a switcher pack to run disco effects from the desk. cant figure out how to set the faders so that the power doesnt fade, and instead switches the device on at the top of the fader run. Am now a nurse, so havent had to program for 2 years!!!

 

Thanx for your help.

 

p.s. OS is as factory set 2 years ago.

[Paul]

Unfortunately you can't set a channel to have a switch law on any of the Frog series desks. Really you shouldn't connect any non-dimmable load to a dimmer output and rely on some programming somewhere in the system to ensure it never dims. Moving lights / disco effects etc should always be supplied from hard power or via a dedicated Switchpack, such as the Switch6.

 

It has been suggested many times on this forum to introduce the feature of laws on the Frog series, however the intention of this would always be to create particular effects, for example with practicals, and never to be used to power non-dimmable loads from dimmers. One day someone will change your programming without realising, and blow up your nice new movers / disco effects.

[Tempiz]

hi Paul, thanx for your reply. Am a bit gutted as the DMX Controlled switcher and datamoons are installed and patched in. my former colleague had his own fat frog, and assured me this was possible. Unfortunately we've lost contact now so i cant ask him what he did. I seem to remember him talking about htp or ltp settings, but couldnt be sure. Is it not possible then for the fader output to be set to be active at the top of the fader only?

 

Regards

Nick.

[Paul]

If you already have a "DMX controlled switcher", then you shouldn't need to do anything special at all on the desk. The switcher will make the decision (usually around 50%) based on the control input, as to whether its output is on or off. You should just be able to control it with a normal desk channel, the switcher will not allow its output to dim.

 

If you have a dimmer and you want to create a switched output (for practicals, not powering non-dimmable things!) there is a trick you can do on the Fat Frog. What you need to do is assign a fixture with just the one LTP channel in it, and then use two submasters - both with the corresponding LTP action set to snap - one to turn it on to 255 and the other to turn it off to 0. I don't think this is what you're getting at though...

[Tempiz]

Hi Paul, your reply is spot on to what i'm asking. If the switcher is able to make the decision, then I'm happy. i was just worried that i was doing damage to the fixtures attached to the switcher. The lamps seem to be unreliable, and i was wondering if thats why. The switcher is a NJD SW1000x which is converted to DMX via a analogue to digital pack. As long as this process doesn't impede on the control then i'm happy.

 

many thanx for your help.

 

Nick.

[Paul]

I couldn't find the exact Switchpack you mentioned, however the NJD SP10000X manual says <3V for fully off, and >7V for fully on, so it should be OK. If you want to be sure, first connect something that won't mind being dimmed (like a 100W bulb) to the switcher output, and see what happens when you raise and lower the fader on the Fat Frog.

 

What you can find with some disco effects (don't know about datamoons I'm afraid) is that they have a cooling fan which is powered from the same mains as the lamp, so if you keep switching them on and off, you can leave the lamp very hot with no cooling. This isn't going to help any lamp have a long life. Ever noticed how video projectors (very very expensive lamps!) have a fan that runs on long after you press the button to shut it down? Is the same principle...

 

Unfortunately there's no easy way around this if this is the problem, you either avoid switching your effects on and off any more than you need to, or rewire them so the fan can get separate power. Besides, datamoons are DMX controlled, so you shouldn't need to be switching them on and off all the time from a switchpack anyhow...

[Tempiz]

Hi Paul, thanx for the advice. The switcher you looked at is the right one, was my typo. Also, had a look at the lantern, and it is a NJD chaos 2000 which hasnt got DMX unlike the datamoon as i originally said. Had a chance to have a look while i was sorting out the frog power supply!!

 

Many thanx for your help on this matter.

 

regards, Nick.

[Morn]

I've seen dimmers, which are able to "switch". For example the Zero88 Contour Dimmers or the Zero88 Demux 48 have s-curve, linear, square and switch dimmer laws for every single channel.

Maybe people should look for dimmers with this capabilities, when there is need to buy some. Kind of investment in the future. ;-)

[Haytech]

Hi I´am out for your

Frog Reference 5418 - Dimmer Laws

 

and additional solo off (swap) function.

setup no solo-channels like houselights etc. that are not affected by pressing a channel while in solo.

[Morn]

'Till the end of 2006 we had some 30 year old analogue LLT Dimmer Packs in our Club, controlled by a Zero88 Demux 48. Since the last 30 years some channels of them got defective and it was finally time to replace them by Anytronics Dimmer Packs with DMX...

Thereby the demux got needless. except one feature: The capability to change the dimmer laws. Especially at fast PAR Chasers a linear curve would look much better, than the standard (s-)curve a normal dimmerpack produces.

So is there anything new when or if ever this option will be (for example in super user menu), integrated?

[A Man With A Lighting Plan]

Hi

Is it possible to set a channel on a Bullfrog to be an independent? That is, so that it will only ever output OFF or ON? Or is it possible to program a fixture on that dmx address running into the dimmer pack (Chilli Pro)?

Thanks

A.M. Walp