Palettes On Subs

[littleboots]

Hi,

 

When I'm running a show I hate having to swap between the colour, beamshape and position palettes so tend to put these attributes (6 of each and 6 for generic channels) onto subs.

 

The problem with this is that (unlike using the palettes where the fixture select buttons choose what info is sent to what fixture) the sub changes the attributes in the fixtures that were tagged when the sub was recorded. Yes I know this how subs work but I would like the flexibility to choose which fixtures are controlled by the sub ie only washes, only spots, odd fixtures, even fixtures, all fixtures etc etc.

 

For example: Sub 24 contains only colour data, with a mixture of washes and spots fixtures tagged and all these fixtures in red. It would be great to use the fixture select buttons to filter which fixture has its colour changed by sub 24.

 

So my request is for the ability to use the fixture select buttons to 'filter' the attribute data on the subs onto the selected fixtures.

 

What does anyone else think?

 

 

Nick

[K-Nine]

So every time you want to raise a submaster to output the programmed data you have to remember what fixtures are programmed on that submaster and then select them or a subset of them to determine which of the programmed fixtures are actually output when raising the sub.

 

If you had one submaster up with say all your washes in one colour and then quickly wanted to bring up some different fixtures with colours, gobos or positions you would have to deselect the first set of fixtures, select the new set of fixtures you wanted and then raise the submaster.

 

If you raised a sub which had certain fixtures programmed in it, but you forgot to select them first, then they would not be output on raising the submaster !

 

I can see what you are asking for but this rather defeats the object of having submasters as a quick, immediate, live hands-on method of outputting known programmed data doesn't it ?

 

This is one of th reasons why you have palettes on the desk as well - as a quick method of changing the colour, beam, or position parameters of selected fixtures.

 

As Peter said, think of a submaster as a scene on a fader ... what is programmed in the scene is output on raising the fader ... one simple action.

 

As far as I know this is how palettes and submasters work on most other desks as well. By careful programming of palettes and submasters you should be able to quickly change the colours, gobos, positions etc of fixtures as required.

[littleboots]

Hi,

 

No, I wouldn't have to remember what fixtures are programmed on that submaster as they are all programmed onto there. I don't know if this has any bearing but I'm not physically raising any submasters to select attributes, just using the flash buttons in the same way that macros can be fired from sub flash buttons on a 520. The only raised submasters are controlling dimmers and fixture intensity.

 

I think what I'm after, ideally, is a palette which can have colour and beamshape and position to do away with the need to flick between palettes. I think this has requested before but isn't feasible. Yes you're right, using the subs in this way does defeat the point of them being subs in the usual sense, but it does allow various attributes to be accessed from the same page. I guess you could apply the same logic and say that having the palette select buttons defeats the point of having channel flash buttons. Of course this isn't true, it's just that the hardware has more than one function. So in this case, then yes these are submasters, but I'm not using them as submasters.

 

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[K-Nine]

I guess that the main philosophy behind the submasters, especially now that you can program partially down to individual fixture parameter level (eg colour wheel, gobo, shutter etc.), is that you can program as much or as little onto them to give you greater flexibility when playing back elements of the show.

 

A submaster may be programmed with one or more fixtures, one or more attributes (colour, beam, position) or one or more parameters (eg gobo, shutter). it is up to the user how he wishes to use them.

 

For example a submaster may move all your moving heads to a particular position, and give them a green rotating gobo.

 

Others may simply turn all fixtures of one type blue, or strobe, or home their position.

 

Another may just open the shutter of a single fixture.

 

Considering that the early releases of the frog software did not have palettes or partial programming down to any level then the software has developed quite a long way over the years, yet still uses the same front panel controls.

 

This is one reason why the channel flash buttons also double up as the palette selection buttons.

[littleboots]

Hi,

 

I appreciate what the desk is capable of and how far purely software development has brought it - I hope you hadn't misconstrued my posts as undermining this.

 

Nor do I have a problem that the channel flash buttons have two functions. It was just an example that if a flash button could have two uses then logic would suggest that a sub needn't be just a sub.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[K-Nine]

Hadn't misconstrued your comments at all ... user feedback is a very important aspect of development and we have taken on board many such comments and suggestions during the development of the frog series of desks.

 

It is not always possible to implement every suggestion on a particular desk for a number of reasons, but we do bear in mind these user requests when designing and developing future products.

 

If you look at some of the features on the Frog 2 and the Leap Frog 48/96 desks you will see what I mean.