CS-4 from Studio Due

[gatto]

Hello everybody,

 

I'll do a show with my LeapFrog and CS-4 from Studio Due. I didn't find the specifications to put it in the frog... (it's not in the fixture release 15). Where can I find it?

Thanks

 

Gatto

[Kirkup_xp]

The CS-4 is a relatively complex fixture to program on a Frog, due to the fact that it has 4 intensity parameters. I can create you a fixture personality for them, however it will be somewhat of a 'botch'. Each fixture on the Frog can only support one HTP intensity channel. You can either have the other channels as LTP ones (which will end up as part of the Beamshape, Colour or Position groups) or you could patch them as additional fixture types, with a dimmer and a Pan parameter. Let me know which you would prefer and I'll create the necessary fixture file.

 

At present I don't see including one or the other of these fixture files with the library to be a useful activity - both types can lead to confusion, and neither would provide a simple single-fixture for you to control.

 

 

Edit:

Just checked the DMX profile and the CS2/4 may also cause some problems when patching onto the Frog desks, due to the fact that the dimmer and pan parameters of each 'head' are embedded within the single group of 20 channels. When you patch a fixture to the Frogs, it reserves a group of channels as defined in the library. If you attempted to patch a CS4 at DMX 100, you would not be able to assign the required intensity and pan channels for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th heads to their appropriate DMX addresses. You may have some problems using this fixture with the Frog desks. I'll look at the fixture profile tomorrow for you in more detail and post here what I think will be the best solution. It would be useful for me if you could post how many of these fixtures you intend using, and how many other fixtures will be patched to the Leap Frog. Whatever solution we end up with, you're likely to need to patch more than one fixture per CS4.

[Kirkup_xp]

I've looked at the DMX profile in a bit more detail and i'm afraid there is no way that you will be able to control the CS2/4 on the Frogs using a 'normal' fixture type. The only way we can get this to work is to give you LTP (Latest Takes Precidence) control over the intensity channels, instead of HTP. This will have several problems, including the fact that if you record any data to a submaster, the data will be triggered at the trigger level, rather than fading nicely. In addition, you won't be able to pull the intensity down by pulling the submaster back down. Unfortunately, this is due to the obscure nature of this fixture.

 

In addition, the fixture will not work with the built in effects engine in the Frogs... this effects system relies on there being only one Pan parameter.

 

 

Let me know if you'd like me to construct this fixture type for you. I'm sorry there's not an easier way for this fixture to work, but due to the obscure nature of this fixture, I doubt you'd find many desks able to cope with it.

 

 

 

Peter

[Transalp]

..., due to the fact that it has 4 intensity parameters...

 

Hello Peter,

 

again from me the question: Why isn't it possible to upgrade the FrogRange to control more than one brightness-parameter per fixture? I asked it already in context of the controlling of rgb-fixtures (http://support.zero88.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3716).

[Kirkup_xp]

Theoretically, the limit of one HTP channel per fixture is only in software. However, by allowing the number of HTP channels to increase, you increase the processing power required by the desk. At present, the maximum number of HTP nodes within the desk is 120 (96 generics and 24 fixtures, on a bullfrog). If we were to allow you 4 channels of HTP in each fixture type, this would increase to 384 (96 fixtures on a Mambo) - more than trippling the HTP processing required. HTP processing is one of the most complex tasks which the processor has to deal with - the level output can come from one of many sources and at any given time, any of those sources can change. The desk hardware was never built to support that level of processing and as such would probably not cope with the task. The level of software engineering which has occured on the Frog range is massive, and to go back and re-code it all to enable one or two very new fixtures to be supported would not be a sensible use of R&D time.

 

Do you know of any desks which allow multiple HTP channels on a single fixture?

[ice]

Instead of 4 HTP channels for the fixture, you can, offcourse, always choose to patch normal HTP faders for controller the fixtures output. This way all movement is kept to were it belongs: the fixture section, but brightness is set to faders. You can group these faders in a sub to control the entire fixtures brightness. The only problem is this takes 4 of your 48 channels for each fixture, so how many do you intend to use?

 

By the way, does anyone know how these kind of problems are dealt with on other console ranges such as the Avo's, SGM, LSC and even Hogs? Do they allow more than one HTP parameter for a fixture? Same goes for programming LED fixtures by the way...

[Kirkup_xp]

By the way, does anyone know how these kind of problems are dealt with on other console ranges such as the Avo's, SGM, LSC and even Hogs? Do they allow more than one HTP parameter for a fixture? Same goes for programming LED fixtures by the way...

 

As far as I know, these sort of fixtures are only supported by the very latest desks. The fact is that up until now 1 dimmer per fixture has been an accepted convention and has been built into the architecture of most,if not all, desks. To re-write them to cope with multiple intensities would mess around not only the the internal workings but also the user interfaces of most desks. Even the accepted theatrical convention of <chan> @ <level> doesn't allow for multiple intensities. This new technology requires a rethink on the philosophy of a lighting desk and is not a simple change to implement.

 

With regard LED fixtures, most desks are coping with the multiple HTP channels problem by approaching it from a different avenue. Instead of giving Red, Green and Blue their own HTP channel, you create a 'virtual' HTP channel, which scales each of the RGB parameters. This Virtual Dimmer then allows you to control the overall brightness of the fixture on an HTP basis, whilst maintaining the colour mixing abilities. This can be seen in the Frog2 at the moment.

[gatto]

Hi Peter,

 

Excuse me I can't check my mails for a few days. I'll only use one CS-4 in my show which is a theatratical performance. So I think I can patch intensity in normal HTP faders and control the Pan and Tilt with the fixture panel. I'll patch 2 other moving head and 36 dimmers. So I can patch several fixtures for my CS-4.

 

How can I edit the fixture file if I will to try to make a file?

 

Thank you (and sorry for the obscure nature of this fixture). I don't know what Studio Due think about that. I'll write them an email.

[Kirkup_xp]

I'll create you a fixture profile for this fixture and upload it on Saturday if thats okay? I'm working away from my PC tomorrow, so won't be able to do it then. If there is more urgency for this profile, let us know and we'll do our best to get something to you ASAP.

[gatto]

Saturday is fine, thank you very much.

[Kirkup_xp]

Attached is the profile for the CS4 without dimmers. Please read these notes carefully before patching the fixture:

 

When patching this fixture type, care must be taken to patch it correctly. In order to use the 4 lamps of the fixture, you must patch 4 generic channels on the desk as the first 4 channels in the start address. You must then patch the attached fixture type as the start address +4.

 

Example: Start Address 001

 

Generic 1- 001

Generic 2- 002

Generic 3- 003

Generic 4- 004

 

Fixture 1 - 005

 

 

 

 

Hope this is clear. Please let me know of any problems with using this fixture profile.

[gatto]

Thank you Peter. I'll try this profile the first week of 2006. I'll give you my comments! Merry Xmas, Stéphane