Live Chase Speed Adjustment

[dbsound]

I think I have managed to alter the chase speed live!

 

I seem to remember that you select the chase in the memory window then hit edit followed by down arrow then the chase speed control becomes active. I might be wrong since it was a while ago and anyway I do remember it being messy.

 

Dave, dB

[K-Nine]

You are right in what you say, but I don't think that's the whole answer.

 

You can edit a chase speed live as you describe, but that method means that the chase will be the only thing running.

 

What several people have asked for is actually adjusting the speed of a chase while it is being output live either from the playback X or a submaster. This is NOT the same editing a chase.

 

The live adjustment would only be a temporary thing, such that if the chase was output later it would run at it's previously programmed speed.

 

Another thing to consider is that in extreme circumstances you can have up to 25 chases running simultaneously (on the Bull Frog), so if you were 'editing' a speed live, which of the 25 would it be?

[HUGOLiTE]

Does anyone know if there is a way to tap in the speed for a chase like you can on for exapel the XLS lightmaster. Cheers

[K-Nine]

There is currently no feature on the Frog range as you describe. It will be added to the suggestions database for review.

 

Frog Reference 5398 - Ability to set chase speed using a "Beat Button".

[JCF SECC]

It doesn't keep the tempo going but I had a foot switch made to plug into the audio feed. I just tap the foot switch to keep a chase in tempo. It also provides for a nice work out during a show.

[K-Nine]

Dave B said:

 

"Once you have picked up chase speed you can hit Enter hence releasing the Edit functions but retaining speed control for that chase. In essence it appears that chase speed is 'with' the last edited chase so you can always alter chase speed of last edited chase. "

 

I have been investigating this recently as part of the general testing on the Frog desks, and in actual fact, it is a bug. When you come out of edit, and output the chase via playback X or a submaster, the chase should run at the programmed speed and not be adjustable via the speed control on the front panel.

 

This bug will be fixed in the next issue of the Frog software.

 

However, live adjustment of chase speeds, both on playback X and submasters is one of vaious items being looked at for future upgrades.

 

Cheers, K-Nine.

[peterhwright]

Have spoken to Keith Rogers about this. Went into edit mode and discovered what is already a known fault in that if you edit a memory and that particular memory is also displayed in current memory and next memory, the lights on stage dip momentarily (a problem if you try and edit during the run). This is going to be fixed but it did lead me to a further anomaly which was new to Keith. I was looking to see if there was a top set feature as found on the Sirius 24 and 48. (Apparently there isn't).

However I managed to create it. It seems once you have been into and out of Edit Mode, then if the flash key beneath a fader is held that fader can be brought down to zero (or any other level). If you haven't been into edit mode this won't happen. Has anybody else found this one. I think top set is useful if you have an errant light but this way of doing it was not intended and so the feature does not officially exist. Could some way of temporarily reducing the level of a channel be included as a feature

[Paul]

This sounds like another manifestation of the bug where EDIT controls seem to continue to work after leaving EDIT mode. Although this might seem like a good thing (for example the chase speed control continues to work after editing a chase), one consequence of this bug is the desk crashing...

 

This bug is fixed in version 6.2.

[peterhwright]

Thanks for the reply. I think the facility of a top set type feature would be useful but not in the accidental way it appears here. As for chase speed, that does need to be fixed once you've programmed BUT it would be nice to be able to temporarily override this during playback.

[dbsound]

Is this related to a problem an LD working for me had recently?

 

When leaving edit mode, used to edit a chase, the 'saving show please wait' message appeared. it scrolled to 17% and then the board locked. Apparently the only way out was to power down the board and reboot.

 

Any comments?

 

Dave B

[peterhwright]

Just upgrade the Leap Frog to version 6.2. Had hoped that this would fix the problem of lights dipping in Edit Mode when the memory to be edited is the same as the memory being output to the stage. This bug still exists. Any idea when it might be corrected?

[K-Nine]

Hi,

The outputs dipping when editing the current memory is one of the items to be fixed in the next major software release. This release will also include some new functionality which is currently being specified and designed. Unfortunately I cannot give you a relase date at the moment.

Cheers, k-nine.

[Frank St.]

Often requested in training workshops with my clients and often needed at my own jobs:

 

Why it so complicated to edit the speed of a live chaser at the Frog-desk? If somebody remembers the Sirius 250/500 software; there you have to push the edit button together with the submaster flash-button and then you can control all chase-attributes. It can't be so difficult to add this feature to the Frog-software. Or you add a beat-button (tap-tempo) to the Frog. This will helps enormous!!!

[K-Nine]

What may appear on the surface to be a simple function to the user is not necessarily simple to design and implement. Having spent over two years on the development of the Frog series from the beginning I know :roll:

 

One major difference to consider is that unlike the Sirius 250/500 desks the Frog desks have a single operating mode.

 

Therefore the Edit button will perform its normal 'Edit' operation depending what is displayed on the main LCD at the time, ie it may result in editing a scene, chase, chase step, submaster, memory on a submaster, SX button, memory on an SX button etc.

 

Similarly, pressing a submaster flash button will flash or solo whatever data is currently on that submaster. In some circumstances, it will also select that submaster if the main LCD is showing a related screen.

 

There is also the issue of whether this operation would be a temporary or permanent edit on the chase speed, especially as chases transferred onto submasters reference the memories in the memory stack, and do not have their own independent modifiers (cf Illusion).

 

If it was only temporary, how do you output the chase at its original programmed speed ?

 

What if the chase on a submaster (or playback X or SX button) was also used elsewhere, would the speed change for those instances also ?

 

Would the temporary edited speed need to be stored for each instance where the chase occurred etc ?

 

These are just some of the reasons why it could get complicated :?

 

On a more positive note, live editing of chase speed has been mentioned by several users, and will therefore be reviewed along with other items next time we look at putting together an updates package.

[richard]

I have to admit that when I found that live adjustment of the chase speed was not possible I was rather shocked, when busking a show it is extremly useful to be able to to this.

 

I would say that my way of doing it would be to not save the altered speed, but to just use it for the current occurence of the chase, the way to select may be to pree the flash button under the sub, or the 'memories' key, to select teh current cue. It could then be possible to have a Super User field which allows you to select whether it will save these changes or just ignore them...

[Frank St.]

Thanks for reply!

 

...still waiting for the next update

 

But you've done a great job with the 7.5 update!

 

Not a joke: A client call yesterday. He was on booth and the operator has programmed the show with a FatFrog. But the operator hat left the update-disk inside the floppy-drive. The booth started and the Frog-desk started with updating from the disk. The client switched off the power during the update process and all show-data has been killed...but the operator has no backup! duck happens.

[K-Nine]

Hi,

The outputs dipping when editing the current memory is one of the items to be fixed in the next major software release. ...

Cheers, k-nine.

 

Frog Reference 5263 - fixed in software release 7.0.

 

Not a joke: A client call yesterday. He was on booth and the operator has programmed the show with a FatFrog. But the operator hat left the update-disk inside the floppy-drive. The booth started and the Frog-desk started with updating from the disk. The client switched off the power during the update process and all show-data has been killed...but the operator has no backup! duck happens.

 

Having just checked this out on a desk for my own piece of mind ... the actual upgrade process is not started until after two user confirmations are given. Therefore the user must have selected continue following the first upgrade message and selected continue again after the warning re overwriting shows is displayed on the LCD, before deciding to pull the plug, after it was too late !

 

Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool :twisted:

[dbsound]

I am worried that the argument concerning live chase speed modification is getting over complicated and hence not being implemented!

 

The simplist solution would work ie when a chase is selected and then edit, or another button is pressed live chase control would be available. This would not need to be recorded as a change.

 

We all might want more but this is the minimum requirement, akin to the Sirius 24/48 live control option on a chase.

 

Dave B

[K-Nine]

I am worried that the argument concerning live chase speed modification is getting over complicated and hence not being implemented!

 

The simplist solution would work ie when a chase is selected and then edit, or another button is pressed live chase control would be available. This would not need to be recorded as a change.

 

We all might want more but this is the minimum requirement, akin to the Sirius 24/48 live control option on a chase.

 

Dave B

 

I don't think that there is any 'argument' that the ability to adjust the speed (and the other chase modifiers) live would be a very useful function to have on the Frog desks.

 

What we have to ensure, is that whenever we design and implement any new functionality on the desks, the user interface is simple to use and does not compromise or adversly affect any of the exisiting functionality. This is not always as easy as it may sound ... see my post of 6 November in this thread.

 

All suggestions in this forum are noted and reviewed periodically to determine which of the requested features are practical to implement.

 

As you will appreciate, we have to make certain decisions as to what goes in these update software packages as we don't have the luxury of unlimited resources. As the saying goes "you can't please ALL the people All of the time".

 

To quote from elsewhere in this forum ...

 

"Frog is a sub-2000 pound hybrid desk. And whilst we should never, and have never stopped developing it ....

 

... Our rationale for the inclusion of features is quite simple and, I'll go as far as to say more open than a lot of other manufacturers... If a feature can be implemented in the product and there is a good commercial or operational case to do so... we'll implement it.

 

... is in our database of feature requests, at some point in the future, we'll be reviewing all of them, and trying to come up with a list of features for the next update... I hope that you will all be ready to vote, and to help us with the specifications"

 

We are listening to your suggestions and continually looking at ways of improving the Frog series ... so please be patient.

[Mortonic]

There is a problem with my Leap Frog lighting desk. I don't know how it happens but whenever I program a chase, after a few days the speed can't be altered anymore. Why is this??????????????????????????

 

Chris

[K-Nine]

At present, the only way to adjust the speed of a chase is to select it on the Memories screen, press the Edit button, move the cursor down so that the chase runs live, and then adjust it's speed using the Speed control on the desk. You then need to press the Enter button to exit edit mode and save the changes.

 

In an earlier version of software it was sometimes possible to adjust the chase speed live without actually editing the chase. This was in fact a bug, which has been fixed (see "More Submaster Pages" topic in the "Suggest a Feature" forum for details)

 

Incidently, one of the features which has been requested by several users is live control of chase speed. This, together with several other features will be reviewed when we look at the proposed contents of the next update package.

[Laubfrosch]

Hi folks :wink:

after another Frog Training I had an idea about the chase speed live editing. It ´ll be a great thing to have a speed button assignable to the submaster flash button, if it is transferred a chase to the SM. Like it is solved on the Mambo Frog at the SX Buttons.

 

By the Way. Why is the solo function of the SX-Buttons seperated from the Submasters? :roll:

 

 

Cheers

Sven

[Paul]

To give greater flexibility. The mode of each SX button (Flash / Go / Solo) is individually set. The submaster flash function applies to all submasters.

[dbsound]

I am not trying to suggest that you make an £8000 lighting board for £2000, I am trying to cut to the chase (oops) for the minimum functionality required for future upgrades.

 

I realise there are issues with software writing etc that you have to deal with.

 

This is a great lighting board! I think we are all trying to help!

 

Dave B

 

ps still on v5 until this is resolved.

[K-Nine]

Often requested in training workshops with my clients and often needed at my own jobs:

 

Why it so complicated to edit the speed of a live chaser at the Frog-desk? If somebody remembers the Sirius 250/500 software; there you have to push the edit button together with the submaster flash-button and then you can control all chase-attributes. It can't be so difficult to add this feature to the Frog-software. Or you add a beat-button (tap-tempo) to the Frog. This will helps enormous!!!

 

The following Frog Reference Numbers cover features to be reviewed for inclusion in future update packages :

 

Frog Reference 5152 - Adjusting Chase Speed on Playback X.

 

Frog Reference 5364 - Live editing of chase modifiers on Submasters.

 

Frog Reference 5398 - Beat Button to set tempo (speed) of a chase.