Recording movement effects

[K-Nine]

That first point you mention is rather irritating. You can't alter speed / position / whatever parameter without completely freezing the movement or getting weird effects. When a fixtures is moving by the effect generator, why isn't that displayed as being an effect?

 

You are correct

 

The movement effect parameters (Effect Size X, Size y etc) displayed on the wheel LCD do not currently match the effect that is currently being output.

 

Frog Reference No 5505 - When a movement effect is running on a fixture this is not reflected in the movement effect parameters on the wheel LCD - they show No effect , size = 0 etc - This is something we will be investigating and hopefully correcting in the next software update

[K-Nine]

also reffering to my first point. i still haven't been able to program a memory containing the effect i was outputting from the submaster, even after tagging the fixtures manually. while the pan and tilt parameters are indeed in fact, changing according to the effect, my guess would be because the effect parameter says 'no effect' it doesn't get stored in the memory when i press the program button.

 

This is probably closely related to the problem I have referred to in my previous post.

 

You could try copying the memory with the movement effect to the new memory and then editing that as required.

[Jeff M.]

If I fire up the lights with a show from a previous gig and want to use some of the memories that are already loaded in the Frog while the scene is paused I take control of lets say two of the lights and adjust their position and focus which stops the lights movement that they were doing before I grabbed them. This is fine but when I go to resave the memory they are on back with my adjustments it overrides the memory and at that point the other lights stop their effect movements and sit still. I need to know how I can make adjustments and not lose the programming on other lights as I am going to be doing an event where I will have different pairs of lights in different rooms and would have to program them in pairs as I move to each room with the console, then save the memory and connect all the lights together and run it all as a show.

[Paul]

With the current software, you need to use the 'Edit' function to achieve this. You cannot simply play a memory, change the look, and re-record the memory. As you have noticed, this will lose the movement effects.

 

We hope to change the software in the future so that running movement effects will be displayed on the LCD and hence recorded as such, rather than the instantaneous snapshot of the outputs you currently get.

[ice]

? I thought this issue was fixed in the last release?

How about using pallets then, if you save a pallet and use that in a memory, what will the console do? Luckely I'm currently sitting right next to a Leap, so I'm gonna give it a go

 

Okay just checked and it's not doing either one of these things. I think it should when using pallets, and maybe also when you're not.

[Paul]

Release 9.8 corrected the problem with losing movement effects for playing and re-recording palettes. Kind of important, since you can't 'Edit' a palette in the same way you can with a Memory/Submaster/SX.

[Jeff M.]

Not quite sure on this, are you saying I will need to transfer the memory to a pallet to be able to do any editing and still have movement from the remaining lights or that the 9.8 fixed the loss of movement when editing the memory itself. I do appreciate your guys imput back to me on this subject as it has been an ongoing effort for me to try to get this worked out.

[Paul]

Sorry Jeff, my last comment was directed at ice, to try and clarify what was actually fixed in 9.8.

 

If you 'Edit' a memory, using the Edit button (as opposed to just playing it and then over-programming it with the 'Program' button), the movement effects will be correctly preserved.

 

Palettes are different, since you can't use the 'Edit' button to edit them. You have to over-program them. In 9.8 we fixed over-programming palettes. Not over-programming Memories/Submasters/SXs.

 

I think ice was trying to suggest, that if you link the Memory to a Palette, then you will be able to do your edits by over-programming the palette, without using the 'Edit' button.

 

From this and various other posts, there does seem to be some resistance to using the 'Edit' button. People seem to want to output something, tweak it, then re-record. Did we put a button on the desk that nobody wants? Should we lose the function and make the button do something more interesting (like go straight to Blind edit?)

[Jeff M.]

Thanks, I will give the edit route a try. I will get back with the results. I'm sure there is much use for the edit button but my actions were to try to get the result with the same key functions as saving a memory.

[Jeff M.]

I tried the edit button but only shows the first 48 channels. I do not see the Macs starting at channel 49. Also I am running OS 9.2.1

[Paul]

Hi Jeff,

 

The fixture data appears on the fixtures LCD, not the main LCD. Use the wheels to modify it in the usual way, then hit Edit again to save the changes (there will be a confirmation pop-up).

 

I'd strongly recommend upgrading your desk to the latest version (CLICK HERE), you'll find a lot of bugs have gone away. For upgrade instructions CLICK HERE.

 

Regards,

 

Paul.

[Pinspot]

1. Select the fixture(s) that you wish to copy the data to.

2. Hold down the relevant attribute selection button (brightness, colour, beamshape, position).

3. Select the fixture that you wish to copy the data from.

4. Release the attribute button

 

I have not had any trouble doing this but when copying a moving figure eight effect from one fixture to another I have not been able to do.

 

The positon numbers are always changing for pan and tilt when doing a figure eight effect. When I copy the figure eight right now to a new fixture it copies only the position of the figure eight at that split second when I release the attribute button to complete the copy.

 

So my question is how do you copy a moving figure eight effect to another fixture? Both fixtures are the same kind. Now I could put both fixtures on the same address to solve the problem but I want to be able to come back later and edit the new fixture I added. I'm using a Fatfrog board.

 

 

Any ideas would be a great help to me

 

Thanks

[Paul]

I've just tried this on Phantom Frog 9.8, and it works OK, as long as the fixture you're copying FROM is displaying a movement effect on the LCD, and not changing Pan/Tilt values as a result of replaying a movement effect from a Submaster/SX/Playback X.

 

The issue with running movement effects not displaying on the wheel LED has been logged to be changed...

 

Frog Reference 5505 - When a movement effect is running on a fixture this is not reflected in the movement effect parameters on the wheel LCD - they show No effect , size = 0 etc

[ice]

It is now possible to program just tagged information into a memory or submaster. Lets say we want to program the colour red, but also the first gobo on the wheel. It would be nice is there is some kind of notification of what you're programming. Of course you could check all the attribute groups by pressing the wheel button in each screen, but that takes a lot of time. Using the monitor is another way, but not everyone uses that.

 

I think it's an option to make an attribute button (like colour) flash at high speed (twice the rate it flashes when there's another wheel group present) when one of the parameters in that group is tagged. It should do that until the parameter is untagged again. When you go to the beamshape group, the colour group would flash at high rate because the colour red was tagged, and the operator has an overview of what's going on without having to switch to the monitor's fixture screen.

[Paul]

This is where the fixture outputs screen (hold F1 and press a fixture selection button) becomes extremely useful. If you hold down Wheelgroup, it shows you exactly what will be programmed. Our sales guys tell us that nearly all Frog users now use the monitor, and I would contend that if you're into parameter level programming; you already are, or really should be, using a monitor. There really aren't enough buttons/LEDs on the panel to rely on the panel alone, which was always one of our reservations about doing it on the Frog series at all. The C/B/P buttons are already heavily overloaded with functions, I think adding more will only add confusion, not clarity.

[ice]

Okay fair enough.

 

About the fixture ouputs screen on the monitor: maybe the effect generator could be displayed there aswell? The fixtures I'm using don't use the bottom part of the screen, so there's room enough to display the movement effects there. Maybe fixtures with a lot of parameters do use the bottom part, I don't know?