Jem TechnoHaze pulsed control

[amillar]

Hi,

 

I have a Jem TechnoHaze which runs off an anaolgue controller (connects using an 3pin XLR). It uses a 0-10V signal from the controller and I thought that it would be a simple matter of connecting my DMX demux up to the Haze machine to provide it 0-10V and therefore control from my Frog. Well, this does sort of work but unfortunately it turns the Haze machine into a fogger rather than a Hazer (and it drinks the fluid!).

 

I contacted Jem support and they told me that the output from the controller is an analogue pulse (300ms on, 200ms off) rather than a fixed voltage. They do have a DMX i/f for this but of course it will cost me £150ish :cry:

 

I was wondering how/if I could achieve this type of output from my Fat Frog? I know I could use 2 memories which automatically toggle between each other to represent the pulse but that does tie up my memory stack which means that I cannot use it for anything else. At first I thought a chase would do which I could assign to a submaster but I don't think that I can set the chase speed accurately enough as the speed is only pot controlled.

 

Anyone got any ideas or am I asking too much of my Frog?

 

Thanks,

Andrew.

[sam.henderson]

Hiya,

 

You can set up the following set of memories (repalce channel 1 with whatever channel the hazer is on):

 

Mem 1: Channel 1 ON, Fade up @ 0, Fade Down @ 0, Dwell 00.00.3, Trigger: Auto,

 

Mem 2: Channel 1 Off, Fade up @0, Fade Down @0, Dwell 00.00.2, Trigger: Auto, Jump: 1

 

This should work however I think you will be working quite close to the DMX refresh rate and it will also depend how quickly your Demux responds.

 

Another factor to consider is that you wont be able to run anything else on the stack while this is happening.

 

HTH,

 

Sam

[sp]

On the Frog the only precise way I can think of is what yourself, and Sam, have suggested with the memory stack. If the machine didn't mind just being sent a constant 10v signal when you were experimenting, could you not just try a very fast chase? As you say it wouldn't be very precise, but perhaps close enough?

 

If this precise rate is critical for the machine to work properly, the only thing I can think of is to use the current remote you have. I don't know this remote, but if it is just an on/off switch, would some kind of arrangement with a DMX relay to close the remote's switch work? Obviously this would involve fiddling with the original remote you have, and maybe a little bit of cost, but it may work.

 

A post on the Blue Room explaining your situation may be worthwhile, I did find a very similar topic when searching, but those who posted then seemed unaware that it is not just a 10v feed required.

 

Edit: Just noticed a Jem DMX interface on usedlighting.co.uk for £50...

 

Regards,

sp

[GLX]

Buy a cheep dmx hazer on www.thomann.de and be done with it.

[amillar]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

Yes, I am aware of how to use the memory stack to do it but I do not want to tie up my stack in this way as I use it for others things. Didn't consider the refresh rate issue so I guess it may end up thinking that the voltage is constant anyway...

 

Thanks for the suggestion of usedlighting.co.uk - I have already investigated this but it's the ZR12 i/f and not the one for my Technohaze. Jem can, however, sell me a replacement card to go inside this unit which would bring the total cost down to around £100. Hence the post to see if you guys had any suggestions for me instead before I part with cash unnecessarily.

 

Andrew.

[sam.henderson]

OK, I try this:

 

Program the following chase (again presuming that chan.1 is the hazer)

 

Go to a memory which is unsued (somewhere near the end of the stack probably) and open the chase box (by holding down the memory type button) and the program step 1 as channel 1 @ FF and step 2 as channel 1 @ 00. Then set the speed to maximum, make sure that the attack is snap up and down and the direction is either forwards or bounce. Now you can edit the times so they are all 0 and tranfer to a sub.

 

I have no idea how well this will work you may have to tweak with the speed live to get it working well.

 

Sam

[amillar]

Sam,

 

Thanks - I will give this a try this week - I imagine that it will only be a rough thing and I will have to see if the effect is more like what the analogue controller would produce.

 

Hopefully, I can get it to remember the speed as I don't think I want to have to tweak during every show.

 

I guess if I can get my hands on a scope I could look at the output wavform from the demux and tweak the speed of the chase so that the pulse is 250-300ms long (ie close to what Jem recommend) - that might be my best bet.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Andrew.

[sam.henderson]

Yep you can get it to remember the speed of the chase, in fact it is programmed automaticly when you 'finish' the chase programming.

 

Sam

[Haytech]

Hi,

maybe there is an easier answer

You´ve got an analoge controller for your hazer - is there a kind of switch to turn haze on/off - replace it with a relay controlled by the DEMUX...

 

goes like this:

Frog -- runs DMX to -- demux -- runs 10V to -- relay (replaces switch in controller) - controller sends hazer needed values.

[bemi]

can you tell us more about the pulsed signal. As i understand a 2Hz-Signal with 60% On is 100% Haze. Is it possiple to set the output to 50%, i.e.?

 

To produce such a signal you can use a NE555, a very cheap and easy to handle, clock chip.

[K-Nine]

I am not sure about the exact timing aspects but a two step chase memory transferred onto a submaster would seem a possible option.

 

If you set the number of shots to one you could then just trigger the chase to run once each time you either raised the submaster fader or pressed the submaster flash button (flash mode set to flash).

[amillar]

The analogue controller has a pot which allows control of the intensity of the haze (ie 2-10V pulsed). With the knob set at "0", the controller still gives 2V to the hazer - this keeps the heater running.

 

The way Jem described the pulse to me was:

"The length is 300MSec and the pulse is 2 per second."

 

I confirmed with them that it was a square wave.

Using a Chase to do this, I would keep a preset channel always to 20% to ensure that the heater always runs and then use the 2 step chase to set the intensity of the haze - the trick is to set the speed.

 

Not sure I want to butcher my analogue controller too much as it is useful to be able to use the hazer standalone - plus it has a button for priming the pump when you run out of fluid etc.

 

Thanks,

Andrew.

[Laubfrosch]

Hi folks,

 

well why do you buy an analog haze if you know you´ll want to operate with an Frog or what else DMX lightdesk?

 

Sorry, probably I´m to old to understand this way of working.... :twisted:

 

ATTENTION Commercial follows!!!! :wink:

 

For all folks who are looking for a nice hazer have a look on the Look Solutions "Unique"

 

This hazer is already equipped with a DMX interface. You are allowed to control the haze intensity and the fan strenght.

 

So effects from steady light haze up to nearly real fog is possible.

 

That´s why it is one of my favorites! Commercial END!!! :twisted:

 

cheers

 

 

P.S.: I do NOT distribute Look Solutions!!!*LOL

[amillar]

Hi folks,

 

well why do you buy an analog haze if you know you´ll want to operate with an Frog or what else DMX lightdesk?

 

Simple answer is that I bought the hazer well before I had the Frog and at that time (several years ago) I wasn't aware of any affordable DMX hazers.

 

Anyway - I have managed to get something working using a chase loaded onto a submaster. I have a multimeter with a frequency mode and used this to set the speed of the chase. It appears to work quite well and the pump does make noises when controlled from the Frog (via my demux) that are similar in frequency to those it makes when the analogue Jem controller is used...and it seems to produce haze rather than a continuous fog

 

Thanks for all your input on this post - this forum was one of the reasons that I bought the Frog.

 

Andrew.