More channels / virtual faders

[ice]

This may be a bit off, but it's worth mentioning... maybe a good feature to implement in F2.

 

I tend to run into situation where I have too little faders to run the show I want to. I have to group things I rather don't want to and thats annoying. Mostly this is caused by a few items which should be turned on in only a single scene (or only a few times). These items/effects all need a single fader, therefore limiting me in my possibility to patch other things.

It would be great if this could be solved using virtual faders, so pressing a button (combination) would set the desk in virtual fader mode, you press in a DMX number (1-512) and set the value (maybe by one of the fixture wheels, or just the numeric keypad).

The channel stays on until you repeat the same steps and set it back to 0; it gets recorded as a normal HTP output channel.

 

This way I can still use the effects (doing this routine a few times doesn't matter since I'm programming anyway) and have faders free for more important things. It's kinda like the compulite way of programming.

 

Any chance of this, should be too complicated I guess, the desk only has to remember which channels were turned on separately... the only thing is the user interface for this.

[stagefrog]

Hi,

 

I don't know if this was suggested before.

Some weeks ago I had to run a show with 10 6lamps PAR64, 8 ACL bars, some PAR64 floor spots and 16 scanners. In total we had to use 72 Dimmerchannels and 16 fixtures.

The problem was, that the the leap frog, we have, is only capable to control up to 48 Dimmerchannels and 24 Movers. So we were forced using an other desk (e.g. HOG1000).

 

So, now my suggestion:

Is it possible to allow the frog desk to control more than 48 channels?

A way this could be done is:

In the Super User menu, in the desk setup or in the patch function a new menu "Number of channels" could be created. In this menue it would be possible to select the number of deskchannels (from 1 to 512). (e.g. lets say 72).

Then you go to the patch function. The list there would now show the numbers of channels you stet before (e.g. 72), which could be patched to one ore more DMX-channels.

 

So now about the question how to control these extra Channels because there is no Fader left for the channels above the channel 48.

 

 

My suggestion is, that it could be done similar to theatre desks. (channel number At level) For the frog consoles it could be done using the external keyboard.

In order to do so, there are needed some buttons on the external keyboard which mimic the functions At, thru, full, increase and decrease. and you need a key to let te console know, that you want to modify channels. So I see the following possible solution:

a function key (F8) = changing channel level

* = AT

/ = thru

+ = increase in 1% steps

- = decrease in 1% steps

Enter = full

 

If you like to set the channel 50 to 60%, the channels 55 thru 60 to 100% and the channel 72 from 60% to 61% it could be done as follows.

[]means a button on the ext. keyboard

Press [F8]

then [5][0] [*] [6][0] [Enter] (channel 50 to 60%)

[5][5] [/] [6][0] [Enter] (Channels 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 to full)

[7][2] [+] (increases channel 72 by 1%.

Press [F8] when you are finished changing channel levels.

 

What do you mean about this feature?

 

Regards stagefrog

[Paul]

This goes against the philosophy of the Frog series, which is that everything should be right there in front of you.

 

If you're looking for a syntax driven desk, where you type in what you want rather than pushing the fader/button for it, then look at the Illusion 500 or Frog2.

[Paul]

This is unlikely to happen in the current Frog series. What you're asking for is a syntax driven desk. This is not what the Frog is all about. With the Frogs, it's all there in front of you on buttons/faders. With the Illusion500 and Frog2, you type in through the syntax what you want.

 

The Frog2 is a bit smarter than that though, since you can assign things to User Definable Keys (UDKs) and User Definable Faders (UDFs) on the panel, to get the instant-access that you get on the current Frogs.

 

The Frogs are what they are, and if you want more of something, you have to use a bigger one.

 

Frog 48 Generic Channels, 0 Fixtures

Fat Frog 48 Generic Channels, 12 Fixtures

Leap Frog 48 Generic Channels, 24 Fixtures

Bull Frog 96 Generic Channels, 24 Fixtures

Mambo Frog 0 Generic Channels, 96 Fixtures

[ice]

Yeah I know that... we can't afford those

[stagefrog]

Hi Paul

 

Thanks for your answer.

Thats a little bit sad. I like working with the leap frog but sometimes I need more than 48 Generic Channels and so I have to take an other console than a frog. Especially because I don't know somebody in my region who owns a bull frog.

 

So there is now chance, that a feature like this could be implemented in the frog range of consoles somewhere in the future?

 

Regards

 

stagefrog

[ice]

With 16 fixtures you have 8 fixtures left, which you can also use as a generic. Okay, 8 is not much; but it might help you...

 

Just curious; why do you prefer the Leap Frog over a HOG1000?

[GLX]

How about a 12 fader extension wing, could make you a few bob!! Mine however shall be free. :wink:

[stagefrog]

I know that. But 8 + 48 is 56. And I needed 72!!!

 

The thing is, we own a Leap Frog but the HOG1000 we have to rent.

 

Regards, stagefrog

[Haytech]

Hi,

Why dont patch some channals together ?

Do you need the control of each parcan in your rig ?

When I ran over the 48 Deskchannel then I patch i.e. Backlighting symetrical together...

 

just a suggestion...

regards

[sp]

As Haytech has mentioned, I would sacrifice individual control of every lantern and put a few onto each of the desk's faders, so you can keep everything on one desk. When patching, press Insert and you can assign up to 10 DMX channels to 1 desk channel.

 

sp

[ice]

Fairly large theatre productions just don't run on 48 channels, even when you've got some groups made up. There's always that director that comes asking for a little light over there, some floods here etc. etc.

[stagefrog]

To Haytech and sp

 

patching lanterns together was what we did. We have patched backlight parcans, frontlight parcans and ambientlight parcans symmetrically together. But hard and soft patch didn't reduce the channels down to 48.

 

As ice mentioned, sometimes the production is to large to run on 48 channels.

 

And I think, if an increase in channels on the frog desks could not be done, we have to choose and buy another desk for the larger shows(e.g. bull frog or even better a hog1000 or a frog2 of course) and keep our leap frog for the smaller ones.

 

But generally, what are you thinking about my suggestion? Would it be useful to you or not?

 

Regards

stagefrog

[TomBrien]

If you need more channels and only using recorded scenes why not make a fixture with alot of parameters and just patch each one as another parcan or what ever, if that makes sense. you could then have upto 512 channels surely, would just be a pain to plot.

[stagefrog]

Nice suggestion. But we were not using only recorded cues because it was a live show where we needed some flexibility.

[ice]

Like that the outputs would be recorded as LTP and not HTP... I don't think that's an easy solution

[stagefrog]

ice, I suppose you missed my ironique undertone.

 

I totaly agree with you, that it wouldn't be an easy solution what TomBrien suggested.

 

To TomBrien:

Your suggestion is innovative but I think, as ice does, mixing up htp and ltp wouldn't be a really good Idea.

 

regards

stagefrog

[Martin]

I like the extension wing idea

[ice]

Well if those parameters would be HTP it would be a nice solution, you can't hook up several dimmers to a single fixture, right?

[ice]

Yeah but how to connect it... don't think that's gonna happen

[Paul]

you can't hook up several dimmers to a single fixture, right?

 

Correct, currently you can not patch duplicates of fixtures as you can with generic channels. This is a bit of a pain (particularly with Mambo Frog which has no generic channels), so...

 

Frog Reference 5463 - Allow duplicate patching of fixtures to different DMX addresses.

 

Some dimmers (e.g. Chilli Pro) will allow you to patch individual channels on the dimmer separately, rather than the whole lot at once, to help you get around this limitation.

 

Being able to have more than one HTP channel per fixture is also a much requested feature...

 

Frog Reference 5411 - Allow more than one HTP parameter to be defined in Brightness for a fixture.

 

The first one is more likely to happen than the second, since the second would also require mods to the fixture tools, fixture library format, other desks that use the same fixture library etc. etc.

[sp]

Well if it was for the Frog2 I suppose it could be USB.

 

sp

[ice]

Hmm, so fixtures with multiple dimmer channels (like Mac Krypton) won't be supported in the current Frog range? How about Frog 2 which uses the same fixture files I guess?

[ice]

If it was Frog 2 you wouldn't need it

[NZ]

It will be supported in the F2