Under my radar

[Davidmk]

Just noticed this under Missing Fixtures in the manual

 

Quote

 

If you are unable to use the Fixture Editor software, we are pleased to inform you that fixture creation will now be outsourced to our fixture database provider. This change is aimed at enhancing the efficiency and accuracy of our fixture management process.

Please note that this service will now be chargeable.

 

Didn't see any news about that. Thought I should bring it to the everyone's attention.

[kgallen]

Yea I just saw that too…

[mikeb]

Wow...

The fixture editor is Ok for quick personalities but isn't GDTF nor easy to create multicell profiles.

Zero88 Sirus, Alcora, Frog, Solution and FLX consoles have been at the forefront of the theatres and village halls that I've worked in over the past 35 years so am wondering if there's any direction for future Vari-lite theatre lighting consoles?

 The market needs rejuvinating with a new console to superceed the FLX or I can see venues moving to other lighting consoles with enhanced capeabilities and free personalities 😐

[kgallen]

45 minutes ago, mikeb said:

Wow...

…so am wondering if there's any direction for future Vari-lite theatre lighting consoles?

The answer to that lies in this forum over the last few months. As a 30 year user/buyer myself, it’s spelled out in big fat letters. It’s the end of the line folks I’m afraid, they’re not interested.

Jon managed to get in a last gasp with ZerOS 8 before he left. That will be the last, I’m sure of it. Zero88 and its beloved products and employees are no more.

[Sven76]

I unfortunately agree! 😏

[Muller Light]

If Vari-lite aren't interested in ZerOS, it would be good if they could put the source code in the public domain so it could be turned onto an open-source project.

 

[Davidmk]

I doubt it will happen but, if they did, the first thing to look at is whether an FLX could run with a Raspberry Pi processor board and touch screen. Vary-Lite could do this themselves of course.

[kgallen]

I believe the FLX S are based on Raspberry Pi and the touchscreen is essentially a generic peripheral you can buy for it. 

FLX is more a custom hardware and screen. 

[Davidmk]

@kgallen Correct, although I suspect the processor board isn't custom, more likely an off the shelf unit that has become uneconomical because other customers have moved on.

I figured that...

1. The problem with producing FLX is the availability of the processor/screen combination.
2. ZerOS has been shown to run on Rasberry Pi, not only that but an old model of RP.
3. Newer RPs have more muscle than old ones.

So it is possible, probable even, that a RP 5 has the capability to run as an FLX

The problem with that is interfacing the hardware bits the FLX has and the S doesn't. I speculate that the various peripheral boards inside an FLX actually talk to the processor via USB. We know the fader wing does so its possible the internal faders do as well plus it is the sort of interface an off the shelf board might use. Even back in the day, Zero 88 wouldn't want to develop a whole new protocol so, even if it isn't USB, it will be something for which an RP hat might already be available.

So, assuming the hardware interfaces are USB, or something that someone in the community could sort out with widely available circuitry (OK, that might not be possible), then, with access to the source code, you have to identify how it 'knows' what hardware it is running on and all the places it uses that information. For that, you need a software specialist. I'm rusty, and it would probably be in a language I'm not familiar with but I reckon I could give that a go and I'd bet I'm not alone.

I don't know the background of everyone in this and the Facebook forums but, given that about half the LX techs I know have backgrounds in IT and/or telecommunications the expertise is out there.

The flaw in this is that Vari-Lite have paid for the ZerOS intellectual property and are highly unlikely to give it away for free. Plus they wouldn't want all the support calls which would result from the unofficial versions that would spring up as a result.

The other thing is why has there been no announcement of a Pi based FLX S+ to replace the full FLX? Is it that it is much harder than I have assumed or that they bought Zero 88 for the other products?

[kgallen]

@Davidmk I suspect you are pretty much bang on with all you say.

I don't think Vari-Lite are interested in the console business, or any of Zero88's products. I think Zero88 was just a tiny operation that came along with their bigger purchase of Signify (or whatever transient companies bought the stable that included Zero88 on the way). Zero88's Cwmbran manufacturing operation is (/was, if it still exists) pretty much over to subcontract electronics build. They'll make a few Zero88 product batches as and when demand requires it. I suspect that will dwindle and drop off as demand drops and the lack of successor products means the Zero88 brand disappears.

This forum will be funded until someone high up in VL realises they are spending money on it and/or the traffic drops off to a level they think there is no need for it any more. We've probably missed the boat but it would be desirable to get the schematics, Bills-of-Materials and if possible software source code out of the remaining Z88 databases and into the "public" domain before VL type "rm -rf /*" on it all and forget it ever existed. The software source code might be tricky as it might contain sub-licensed IP such that it doesn't have a GPL type license, I don't know, this is not my area.

I've not heard anything about any new products with the Z88 brand and there is no evidence to date on the beta forum of ZerOS development work post 8.0 (although JonH did suggest there was an ongoing development plan on his leaving speech). But I don't think there is "anyone" left from Z88 to do this. I think Simon, the key software guy, was probably a sub-contractor [I could be wrong], so will have moved on to other ventures to keep paying his mortgage. If he is about, he's been very quiet and hasn't posted on here at all to say "don't panic guys, we're still here (just)".

Time will tell. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Davidmk]

1 hour ago, kgallen said:

I'm not holding my breath

Nor me. In fact I don't think I dare to dream. ☹️

[scottydog75]

On 4/7/2025 at 8:49 PM, kgallen said:

The answer to that lies in this forum over the last few months. As a 30 year user/buyer myself, it’s spelled out in big fat letters. It’s the end of the line folks I’m afraid, they’re not interested.

Jon managed to get in a last gasp with ZerOS 8 before he left. That will be the last, I’m sure of it. Zero88 and its beloved products and employees are no more.

Hear hear...  

Where's the downvote button when you need one ⬇️

I wonder how long until the FLX S is canned - I had slight optimism at the ZerOS 8 launch that it sounded like FLX S would be hanging around for a while (https://www.vari-lite.com/global/news/releases/zeros-8-0) - perhaps not much longer with the 'core' Z88 team all gone now. 

Still wonder if we'll ever hear from our new Vari-Lite admins on this forum?  (it's not too late to introduce yourselves, we don't bite! Would be great to get some of your insights on the future of FLX to allay our concerns!)

Signed - a loyal Z88 user

 

[pcollins666]

As a Zero88 stalwart user and supporter for more than 30 years, I asked a few questions just about what we might expect in the way of support following Edward & Jon’s departures. I did receive a prompt reply in red below. It at least gives their intent and maybe a base for us to push from….

 

With my two good friends, Jon Hole & Edward Smith departing in quick succession, can you describe the changes to the support services that we are likely to see going forward.

I understand how this must look but I would like to reassure you the software development team that are in the background are still very much here and as will has a dedicated support department.

The support department is manned in the UK and US so we can offer better global coverage.

 

Up to this point I’ve had personal FLX Support response to emails usually within one working day.

We do still try to respond withing 24/48 hours to direct emails, however this will also depend on workload as we also cover on site visits.

Instant phone call response for show critical issues. Are there still FLX console experts available to take technical enquiries?

We have and have always had an out of hours emergency response number, this is available from the Vari-lite website.

Please find below the link.

https://www.vari-lite.com/global/support/technical-support

 

Daily monitoring and responding to forum posts, usually within one working day. No spam posts. The forum appears already to be out of control.

The forum has slipped behind as we have been dealing with direct customer support, we are currently working on a solution to this.

Fixture Library addition requests created and emailed back usually within one working day.

We are creating fixture files for customers but as the workload has increased we have had to increase the estimated turn around time to up to a possible 21 days.

We understand this is a big difference and we do endeavour to do them ASAP which is usually between 1 and 3 days.

If the file is urgent, we recommend the customer creates the file themselves as this is a very easy process within the ZerOS Software, please see the link below.

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/patching/add-fixtures/fixture-creator

 

Ongoing ZerOS development with bug fixes and new features. Are there still dedicated ZerOS software developers actively in post?

As I mention above, the software develop team has not changed this has in fact increased with developers in the UK, US and New Zealand.

 

A roadmap for ZerOS progression, shared with users.

A monitored ‘What would you like to see in ZerOS’ poll.

Regular beta testing releases with feedback being acknowledged and logged.

Updates and improvements to training manuals and YouTube content following ZerOS releases.

 

Thank you for your suggestions, I will forward them to the product management team.

 

As you can see from the above, Zero88 provided a truly comprehensive service to its users, at no extra cost. 

 

I would like to hope that a similar service will continue to be provided from the company that has the iconic and industry respected name of Vari-Lite. 

 

Thank you for your questions and I hope you find our response reassuring.

We are constantly looking at our processes and internal procedures to improve the customer experience.

 

 

[Davidmk]

@DMH @RJP

To be fair, some good answers there and, if delivered, could help the situation but...

How it looks is important. In the absence of a published plan and feedback on progress, its all we have. We used to have trust but that has to be earned so, come on Vari-lite, start looking better.

You've bought the rights to good hardware and software with an established customer base - many of whom have been using Z88 products for years, decades even @pcollins666. An unpaid sales force that was more than happy to sing the praises of a company that looked after them, had a solid track record of supporting them and of steady innovation. What do you think those established customers are saying to your potential customers now?

It's clear the full FLX had to be discontinued but there's no talk of a replacement. The in-person training has stopped. Cwmbran is no longer a service centre and there are none listed on the Vari-Lite Web site in the UK (the two "dealers" listed are a 2nd hand equipment seller and a hire company). Plus, to return to the origin of this thread, there is now a charge for fixing the (inevitable) gaps in the fixture library.

These things are probably not Vari-Lite's fault but what is being done to address them? How could I, in all conscience, reccomend a Z88 product today?