wysiwyg and frog again

[daoops]

How about linking the hardware-frog to wysiwyg in some sort of way.

[Paul]

You can, you just need to buy the WYSIWYG DMX Input dongle for your PC.

[sam.henderson]

Hiya paul,

 

I currently own a copy of WYSIWYG Design, can you explain to me how you would make this work if i upgraded the software and bought the dongle. WOuld I beable to use phantom and then it passes the data out through the dongle??

 

Thanks

 

Sam

[Paul]

Phantom Frog cannot output DMX by any method currently. We have to consider how many desks we wouldn't sell if we upgraded Phantom Frog to do this :wink:

 

To connect one of the real desks to a PC running WYSIWYG, just connect the desk's DMX output to the WYSIWYG dongle.

 

The other half of WYSIWYG (where WYSIWYG talks back to the desk via some other interface - MIDI or Ethernet as I recall) isn't currently supported by the Frog series.

 

If you look around the forum for other visualisation topics, you'll also see Capture Sweden mentioned. Worth a look at this too.

[ice]

Phantom Frog cannot output DMX by any method currently. We have to consider how many desks we wouldn't sell if we upgraded Phantom Frog to do this :wink:

 

To connect one of the real desks to a PC running WYSIWYG, just connect the desk's DMX output to the WYSIWYG dongle.

 

The other half of WYSIWYG (where WYSIWYG talks back to the desk via some other interface - MIDI or Ethernet as I recall) isn't currently supported by the Frog series.

 

If you look around the forum for other visualisation topics, you'll also see Capture Sweden mentioned. Worth a look at this too.

 

I've tried Capture, and am a little disapointed by the looks of the software. WYSIWYG costs a lot more, but you're definitely getting a lot more! If you want to buy one package and be happy with it for the next few years: go with WYSIWYG.

 

The DMX-in of Capture works great with the Frog, too bad I've only got the demo version so it quits after 90 mins, and there's no way so save any of your work. The dongles all work with your DMX signal, so as long as your desk is outputting that you can connect anything you'd wnat (even another PC). What you need is at least WYSIWYG Perform 500 (about 3k euro), that comes with a dongle.

 

It would be an option to rewrite Phantom Frog so it's able to communicate with WYSIWYG over Ethernet. You mention the possibility of losing customers to an offline console which outputs DMX. I don't think that's going to happen, cause when you'd want to work like that, you can always download the Avolites Pearl / Hog / GrandMA software. That all works and is way better than Phantom Frog; so don't worry there!

 

I'm going to buy the Perform edition of WYSIWYG next year, so I'll give u guys some more info then, if you want it.

[Laubfrosch]

Hi Jasper,

 

yes you are right in some point of views, but in others you are not.

 

Talking about Grand MA offline, this editor or virtual desk is only able to work via ethernet to communicate with a real console or remoting it.

 

That is an advantage to the Phantom Frog. Right!

 

But keep in mind the costs!!!

 

A Frog start at 3k EUR a MA at 11k EUR retail I suppose. Any more questions? Please do not try to compete lighting desks which play in different leagues.

 

To get a real Frog working with WYSIWYG you will need a real Frog, a fast PC with a very good VGA card, a WYSIWYG Perform xxx and a so called WYGIT 2. The WYGIT2 is an external hardware interface with DMX in/out and USB to the PC.

 

that is all for now.

 

Cheers

Sven

[daoops]

So If I by the WYG-It module, it's just connect and play you mean.

Another question then.. Do the FatFrog support AUTOFocus?

If not. Is this something that is considered in the FROG2 system

?

[Haytech]

If I by the WYG-It module, it's just connect and play you mean

 

You have to connect a real existing frog console or another desk via DMX to the WYG-IT as you need a DMX outputting processing unit.

 

The phantom will not going to output DMX data.

[ice]

Hi Jasper,

 

yes you are right in some point of views, but in others you are not.

 

Talking about Grand MA offline, this editor or virtual desk is only able to work via ethernet to communicate with a real console or remoting it.

 

That is an advantage to the Phantom Frog. Right!

 

But keep in mind the costs!!!

 

A Frog start at 3k EUR a MA at 11k EUR retail I suppose. Any more questions? Please do not try to compete lighting desks which play in different leagues.

 

To get a real Frog working with WYSIWYG you will need a real Frog, a fast PC with a very good VGA card, a WYSIWYG Perform xxx and a so called WYGIT 2. The WYGIT2 is an external hardware interface with DMX in/out and USB to the PC.

 

that is all for now.

 

Cheers

Sven

 

You're right, but MA has got an offline visualising tool too; that's another big difference. I'm quite certain these softwarepackages like HogPC and grandMA etc. output a standard Ethernet signal. Just reading the stream and outputting that to a dongle does te trick; my Enttec OpenUSB2DMX dongle has some software which is capable of reading Ethernet streams. So you've got an offline console which outputs real signal, a visualiser to program offline and everything for free.

 

It's just a point I made to prove that Zero should cut back on these things because they're afraid they'll lose customers on it. There are already some good examples of offline software which works great and really expands the possibilities you've got. I don't think they're gonna take the Phantom to that kind of level, but maybe the software on F2 has these kinds of capabilities?

[Guest ekld]

As a salesman / LD who has to program and maintain installations with these desks, I would say it is a very valuable concept to have an OLE that connects to wyg. This allows me to do programming for my laymen customers ( CHURCHES) without having to go to the site- for special events, or when things change. Obviously very few customers who use a Frog are going to purchase a CAD and Vis package that costs more than the desk they program on, but those of us who are looking to provide our customers with solutions, it is a very valuable tool. I would say there is a large class of users that never actually learns the desk, just pushes the faders the installer provides them.

I don't think that MA would have payed to be in the Wysiwyg developers group ( allowing them to now connect to wyg and support autofocus in the console and OLE) if they didnt realise the value of this connectivity- this despite the fact that they have their own visualizer.

[Laubfrosch]

Hi ELKD,

 

yepp I fully agree with you.

 

I am also working as salesman and somehow as LD(I do not like the word almost!!!:-))

 

WYSIWYG works fine but costs a lot. It is only worth purchasing for rentals who have to disposite the equipment, count power consumption etc.

 

AND prepare the Lighting Rig, because during setup and showtime there is not enough time left for programming.

 

Most customers of our company who use WYSIWYG are using it for predesign theater stages.

 

To give a hint to all frog users who only want to prepare their upcomming light setup and do not need a realtime 3d render.

 

The AVO Visualizer is still a nice tool to do so and it´s costs are almost half of a complete WYSIWYG.

 

 

I stop "marketing" now! :twisted:

 

have a fine day

 

Sven

[ice]

The AVO Visualizer is still a nice tool to do so and it´s costs are almost half of a complete WYSIWYG.

 

If thought the AVO software was available for download for free, or am I wrong?

[Laubfrosch]

Hi Ice,

 

yepp, the download is for free.

 

There is a big BUT!!!

 

You need to buy the PC hardware which is needed to use the visualizer.

 

Afterwards you have to fill out a short register form. Now you receive a password which you need to extract the zipped software.

 

For more details please contact the AVO guys. I think Ric is responsible for the Visualizer.

 

 

I hope this is of help.

 

 

Cheers

 

Sven

[Pipo]

Forget about the visualiser, it is very, very expensive!!!

 

Wysiwyg Perform System: 3500€

Wyg-It 2 box (2) : 2200€

This is only the software!

 

Xeon 3.2 GHz , 2MB, 1200€ x2 because 1 is to slow: 2400€

3D-labs Realizm200 512MB videocard: 1500€

20" flatscreen x 2: 2000€

 

I've bought all this in the past 16 months! And my system is still slow!

I don't regret that i bought all this, but if now I could choose to do it all over

then I would get myself a Frog2!

You can sell your frog after a few years if you want, but nobody is going to buy your crappy old computer!

 

And for offline programming, it is not possible to get the exact same rig on location as you get on your screen.

Connecting the desk to the visualiser is ideal for creating different looks, and maybe to program some colorchases, but not the entire show.

[ice]

I don't agree with that.

 

1: The prices you mention aren't correct. The 500 Perform version costs 3195 (from Cast website).

2: You don't need the Wyg-it 2 box if I'm not mistaken. The perform version should be equiped with a dongle?

3: It's definitely possible to create an accurate rig. If you've got a good plot of your theatre and you write down the heights you're using the simulation is very realistic. Okay; you do need to edit your position pallets a little bit, but that's just physics.

4: I can pre-program an entire show, and get it up and running with only a quart hour of programming time to adjust position pallets. That's impossible when you're not pre-programming.

 

It's the way you use the system I guess, and not for every purpose pre-programming is needed / useful; that's true. If you mainly do band gigs and use the same colour chasers etc, don't buy the software. If you do different theatre shows and don't have much time in the theatre itself; the software's damn great! Same goes for the larger festivals etc.

 

By the way; if you don't like it; I'll buy it Also I still want to test Frog2 before even thinking of buying one (in due time...) so I'd definitely go with the WYSIWYG

[Pipo]

1: The prices you mention aren't correct. The 500 Perform version costs 3195 (from Cast website).

2: You don't need the Wyg-it 2 box if I'm not mistaken. The perform version should be equiped with a dongle?

3: It's definitely possible to create an accurate rig. If you've got a good plot of your theatre and you write down the heights you're using the simulation is very realistic. Okay; you do need to edit your position pallets a little bit, but that's just physics.

4: I can pre-program an entire show, and get it up and running with only a quart hour of programming time to adjust position pallets. That's impossible when you're not pre-programming.

 

1: The perform500 version doesn't exist anymore!

2: The Wyg-it box converts the dmx-data, has nothing to do with a dongle!

3: it is possible alright, if you've got the time and money.

4: Yes you can, but I would rather program at the venue so the client or the band can change things the way they want to instead of programming at home four hours and then have to listen to the client or band's nagging:

Don't like that,...would rather have this look..., could you do that,....

 

It's not always how you want it to look!

 

But who cares, this is a Frog forum, not a visualiser-forum!

:twisted:

 

Sorry Ice, het is niet persoonlijk bedoeld maar als het enkel om offline te programmeren is zou ik het u zeker niet aanraden. Hardware-matig heb je een enorm krachtig systeem nodig en dat kost geld, veel geld!

Heb zelf hierin een serieuze misrekening gemaakt. Was van het idee: software is genoeg, maar ben bedrogen uitgekomen.

[ice]

I now see that the new 11 version is released, so maybe you're right. That would definitely be a bad thing since I just want the perform 500 version. The Dutch retailers still have it in their pricelists, so I'll see if it's still available. Otherwise I'll try to find it secondhand.

I know you've got to have the hardware for it, but I already do so, so I don't need to buy new stuff.