RDM problem with ClayPaky Mini-B spot, missing ETC ministar personality, DMX frequency

[Jean Iwanowski]

Hi,

There seems to be a problem when adding a Mini-B spot through RigSync : the device is recognized as Mini-B (name field in the Fixture Schedule screen) but the profile appears in red and is named something like "Axcor 300" (sorry, I do not have my FLX in front of me at the time of writing this message).  The fixture then does not work at all. I tested this without any other device on the DMX line. When adding the fixture manually (RigSync disabled), everything works as expected.

I also have a ETC ministar fixture that does not seem to exist in the library. Any plan to add it soon? If it helps, my reseller asked ETC for a  fixture profile. You'll find it attached to this message (I have not tested it yet...)

Unrelated question : I frequently have problems on my DMX network with fixtures that blink etc. I never could identify the source of the problem, but I suspect my low-end DMX-RDM splitters might have something to do with it. Anyways, my reseller advised me to lower the frequency on the DMX bus, which he said might help. Is this possible with the FLX? I could not find such a setting.

Regards,

JeanETC_HES_Ministar_customEB.zfix

[kgallen]

3 hours ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

I frequently have problems on my DMX network with fixtures that blink etc. I never could identify the source of the problem.

Try turning RDM (RigSync) off and see if they still blink. Some fixtures don't decode the "packet type" field at the start of the DMX stream. It is 00 for DMX and some other value for RDM packets. If the fixture doesn't check for the 00 then it can interpret RDM packets as DMX packets. Because RDM packets are relatively short, this usually only affects fixtures that have DMX addresses quite low down. I don't remember the exact value, but fixtures with addresses over 256 don't suffer this even if they don't decode the packet type field for the required 00. If you re-address your problem fixtures higher up the DMX address range, they might behave. If they do, it's because they have this issue (they are not truly DMX compliant).

[Edward Z88]

1 hour ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

There seems to be a problem when adding a Mini-B spot through RigSync : the device is recognized as Mini-B (name field in the Fixture Schedule screen) but the profile appears in red and is named something like "Axcor 300" (sorry, I do not have my FLX in front of me at the time of writing this message).  The fixture then does not work at all. I tested this without any other device on the DMX line. When adding the fixture manually (RigSync disabled), everything works as expected.

Sounds there could be an issue with their RDM implementation. Please see this recent thread, for an in-depth description of what may be going on...

1 hour ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

Anyways, my reseller advised me to lower the frequency on the DMX bus, which he said might help. Is this possible with the FLX? I could not find such a setting.

You can change the DMX Transmission to "Delta", which means the console will lower the DMX frame rate when values are not changing. This option can be found in Setup > Universes > DMX.

[Jean Iwanowski]

3 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

Sounds there could be an issue with their RDM implementation.

Thanks for this information. I attached additional information that might help prove that the explanation is correct :

• faulty_minib.heic :how the fixture schedule looks after RDM detection of the Mini-B
• faulty_minib.

But as soon as I exit setup, another problem appears (see rdm_error.heic). I do not see how it can be related to the incorrectly announced fixture. Or does RDM communicate based on a device type, so the FLX tries to speak with an Axcor Spot 300 and the fixture does not answer since it actually is a Mini-B Spot?

 

3 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

You can change the DMX Transmission to "Delta"

Thanks, I thought delta meant that only changes would be transmitted, which was a bit too error prone for my taste. But as long as frames still are periodically transmitted this is something worth a try.

 

3 hours ago, kgallen said:

If you re-address your problem fixtures higher up the DMX address range, they might behave.

Nice trick. I will give it a try. Sad to see such bad implementations of a standard. It is true that I mostly see it happen on very low-cost fixtures where software engineering cannot be stellar, maybe I am to blame for buying such devices  However the problem also happened from time to time on more high-end devices (ETC S4 LED Lustr Series 2). I am not sure the root cause can be the same for these...

 

5 hours ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

I also have a ETC ministar fixture that does not seem to exist in the library.

I just tested the fixture file provided by ETC. It seems to work when adding the fixture manually (the fixture is not recognized correctly either by RDM, see file faulty_ministar.heic), although it is not very user friendly (no gobo images on the FLX screen, no description of parameter values on encoder wheels...). Is it something you add in the library to make work with fixtures easier? If so, do you know if the Ministar will be added to the library soon?

faulty_minib.heic rdm_error.heic

faulty-minib.zos

faulty_ministar.heic

[Edward Z88]

12 minutes ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

• faulty_minib.heic :how the fixture schedule looks after RDM detection of the Mini-B
• faulty_minib

Thank you for the show file. This suggests that this fixture is incorrectly reporting with the RDM Device Model ID of an Axcor Spot 300, but with a name of "MINI B SPOT". Therefore, the DMX map will be incorrect, as the fixture is telling the console it is an Axcor Spot 300 when it isn't.

13 minutes ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

But as soon as I exit setup, another problem appears (see rdm_error.heic). I do not see how it can be related to the incorrectly announced fixture. Or does RDM communicate based on a device type, so the FLX tries to speak with an Axcor Spot 300 and the fixture does not answer since it actually is a Mini-B Spot?

This would suggest the console can only intermittently reach the fixture. Check that the DMX line is terminated, and ensure any DMX splitters are RDM compatible.

15 minutes ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

Is it something you add in the library to make work with fixtures easier? If so, do you know if the Ministar will be added to the library soon?

This fixture will be included in a future ZerOS software update. I do not have a date for when this will be implemented. Please see this link, should you wish to create your own custom fixture file...

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/patching/add-fixtures/windows-fixture-editor

[Jean Iwanowski]

Hi Edward,

Thanks a lot for the quick feedback. I'll inform the reseller of the problem with both the ClayPaky and the ETC fixtures that seemingly announce themselves incorrectly.

 

3 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

This would suggest the console can only intermittently reach the fixture. Check that the DMX line is terminated, and ensure any DMX splitters are RDM compatible.

What bothers me here is that I just linked the FLX and the fixture with a short DMX cable and terminated the line directly after the device. I do not see what could go wrong there. The cable could be damaged, or the cable/termination might have the wrong impedance, but they should not since they were sold as DMX compliant parts, and even then I am not sure it could have such an impact. In your experience, is such a cable problem probable? Otherwise either the fixture or the desk has a problem.  

[Edward Z88]

13 hours ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

the ETC fixtures that seemingly announce themselves incorrectly.

I have never seen an ETC fixture with poor RDM implementation. They always seem to be very good. However, I have not personally tested High End Systems fixtures, which is I believe what the Ministar is.

13 hours ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

What bothers me here is that I just linked the FLX and the fixture with a short DMX cable and terminated the line directly after the device. I do not see what could go wrong there. The cable could be damaged, or the cable/termination might have the wrong impedance, but they should not since they were sold as DMX compliant parts, and even then I am not sure it could have such an impact. In your experience, is such a cable problem probable? Otherwise either the fixture or the desk has a problem.  

Try a different cable, but if that doesn't work either, sounds like cabling should be fine. We were running ZerOS 7.14.3 software at "PlugFest" this year. At "PlugFest", we perform rigorous interoperability tests with FLX S and a bunch of other equipment. FLX S performed incredibly well in these tests.

Please could you email me a photo of your console's serial number to support@zero88.com?

[Jean Iwanowski]

11 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

Try a different cable, but if that doesn't work either, sounds like cabling should be fine.

I tried a different cable, and a different DMX termination, same behaviour. This is really strange.

11 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

Please could you email me a photo of your console's serial number

I just sent you the photo. Thanks for your help!

 

[Edward Z88]

12 hours ago, Jean Iwanowski said:

I just sent you the photo. Thanks for your help!

Thank you for this. This confirms your FLX has the latest DMX circuitry.

If you wish to continue using RDM, the next thing to try is using an Art-Net to DMX/RDM gateway. If this works with these fixtures, this would confirm there was a compatibility issue between these fixtures and the FLX console's DMX ports.

[Jean Iwanowski]

2 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:

the next thing to try is using an Art-Net to DMX/RDM gateway

I will try if I can get my hands on such a device. I'll keep you posted if it happens. Thanks for the support, great as always !