replacing our ETC board with Bullfrog - questions...

[gress]

I took over the running the lights at our church a couple years ago. We have an ETC 24/48 light board with 4 mirror/lights combo, 4 color scrollers and about 25 Altman lights. I recently added 2 Martin 250 Entours that work great. So with all this, it maxed our our dimmers on the board and we are looking to purchase more moving heads in the future. So I have been looking around at some different light boards. I like the features of the FROG series since they can generate effects on the fly. We usually have the same cues with step through for sermons and have the mirrors do different spots depending on the dramas we have. We do have a concert about once a week. This is where I wish I had more control of whats going on. I am hoping the FROG can help. During songs I would like to change the speeds of the Martins on the fly and it just takes to long with the ETC board. Is this something the FROG can help me with? I currently have to preset some cues with different effects and speeds and just to them depending on what I want. It looks like the FROG series give you more on the spot control so you dont have to preset so much - am I correct? Also when it says 96 channels with 24 fixtures, does this mean that the fixtures do not take up a channel as it does on the ETC that I have? Is there a WYSIWYG editor for the Bullfrog where you can just program on PC and then load up in the Bullfrog?

 

Are there any problems anyone can foresee in replacing the ETC with the Bullfrog? Is it as simple as plugging in my DMX cable and setting up the patch to the channels I want for our scollers, mirrors and altman lights and then setting up the Martins? I do already have a map of the dimmer number to light.

 

Its currently a headache on this ETC as I we have our normal cues on the A/B side and then also bring up effect cues for the Martins on C/D side and that throws off the flow for the A/B side so you have to recue the same thing on the A/B side - ok I am rambling here and that dont make sense!

 

Thanks for all the answers!

[GLX]

Yea there a great desk very easy to busk a show on, I own a fat frog and have no major complaints, I'm sure K-nine will fill you in on the rest.

[ice]

The frog sounds like what you're looking for. When u use the effect generator, you can simply alter the speed of current moves with one of the control wheels.

 

The Frogs channels and fixture are totally separated; so it's 96 channels AND 24 fixtures, all at the same time.

 

WYSIWYG is lacking I'm afraid. The possibility of offline programming is given with the "Phantom Frog" which U can download from www.zero88.com. But I must say that's not really useful for things other than patching your DMX and assigning fixtures. It's really for setting up the desk, saving that to a floppy and program your lanterns onsite.

 

I don't think you'll run into any problems. You could check the current fixture files to see if all of your fixtures are in there. If that's not the case; just post a DMX-table here and one of the guys here will set you up with a valid fixturefile. You could also of course create it yourself with the Fixture type editor.

 

I hope that answers your questions, but as GLZ said; K-Nine will come and do his promotional-talk-thingy here

[Andy Blackham]

The church I provide support for have recently upgraded to a Fat Frog and it went really smoothly. Once the desk was configured (easier with a monitor attached) it was really simple to setup the patches and away they went.

 

I would check that all your gear is covered in the fixtures listing on the zero88 site. I know the Macs are because we have them too.

Its very simple to operate, I'm sure you'll love it.

 

Using submasters (there are 20 x 12) you can setup specific configs for the Macs so different speeds etc can be on separate faders (I think).

 

You are correct about the fixtures. you have 96 channels of dimming and 24 inteligent devices, or course not every fixture needs be on its own channel, i rented 2 more macs, put them on the same dmx channels and just looped them in. double the lights, no extra programming, it looked impressive. I like the fact that the desk can flip the light for both left right and up down for mirroring purposes.

 

Phantom Frog is slightly disappointing. Its much harder to use than the real desk and you really need a pc with two monitors to operate it. But it does work.

 

Andy

[sp]

Phantom Frog is slightly disappointing. Its much harder to use than the real desk and you really need a pc with two monitors to operate it. But it does work.

 

Andy

 

Yes that's true, but then again, there really isn't anything else you need to learn to be able to use the Frog offline-editor.

 

sp

[jxgriffi]

Gress,

 

I wanted to throw in my two cents. I also do a lot of installs for various churches and I am currently the Lighting Director for Saddleback Church.

 

In the past few months, I have done installs with 3 different Frog consoles. We have one here at Saddleback (Fat w/ 12 Mac 250+), 1 at New Song in Irvine, CA (Leap w/ 8 Geni Shiva, 4 Technobeams, 4 Color Pros) and 1 at Calv. Chapel Menifee (Bull w/ 12 Mac500).

 

Everyone has been extremely happy with the console and it's ease of use. It's extremely flexible and easy to busk on as has already been mentioned.

 

If you have more questions...just ask. I'm sure anyone here will be happy to answer.

[gress]

Thanks for all the replies, I downloaded the manual and the disappointing offline editor. I was really getting pumped reading the manual as there is a lot of things about the ETC that I wished it could do and the Bullfrog can do that! So much for an editor though.

 

a few other boards I have looked at have a MIDI and Ethernet connection - am I going to wish I had those? I dont really think I would use them but spending the money on a new lightboard, I want to be sure and get one that will do things I want in the future.

 

I am sitting at about 99% sure on the Bullfrog now.

 

Thanks again.

[sp]

There is an update available for the frogs to enable midi functionality, not sure about ethernet though.

 

sp

[K-Nine]

Gress,

 

It looks like most of your questions have been answered in the various replies above

 

If you have any further questions on the Bull Frog then please post in these forums, where we will do our best to help.

[Haytech]

To complete sp´s post

it´s a SMPTE/MIDI/CAN Board. CAN is compatible to Chillinet or devices of iLight.

 

The most purchaser of lightingconsoles like Zero88 / ETC etc. :-) have done their own "Ethernet" the only console I do know using TCP/IP compatible to PC - is the "grandMA" and their successors.

 

PS.: If you get the *frog you get a theaterstack, full moveinglightcontrols,

108 Submasters(good for live situations) ( all provided with fadetimes) all in all a great console.

[K-Nine]

I just remembered something (and spotted a minor error in the manual :oops: ).

 

In Version 9 of the software we increased the number of submaster pages to 20 on all desks in the frog range, therefore:

 

Frog/Fat Frog/Leap Frog has 20 pages of 12 submasters (total 240 submasters)

 

Bull Frog has 20 pages of 24 submasters (total 480 submasters)

[gress]

OK, this is the last question for now. I have not been through all of the manual yet.

 

On the FROG series, can you program up effect/subroutine queues like on the ETC? Where I can have several steps on a queue and execute them in a loop?

 

Currently, I have an effect on the ETC that flashes certain lights and loops. And another one that makes my scrollers scroll back and forth to change colors in a loop. And yet another one that sweeps the Martins in a certain path back and forth. Just things like that.

 

Thanks.

[K-Nine]

I think that the easiest way to do this is to program them as n-shot chases. This functionality was added in version 9 software

 

See Version 9 release notes or the latest operating manual for further details.

[sam.henderson]

I think the frog is just what you are looking for, has all the cue stack functionality you need for your sermans and the ability to use on the fly. Its very user friendly!

 

One recommendation i will make to you is definately use it with a monitor and keyboard, it makes it into a whole different desk!

 

One thing to point out though will you need a bull frog- i.e. are you looking to up the amount of fixtures dramatically in the near future. You may get away with a fat frog or at the very least a leap frog?? something to think about

 

Sam

[gress]

Yes, I have decided on the Bullfrog.

Thanks

[K-Nine]

Yes, I have decided on the Bullfrog.

Thanks

 

Good choice

[Laubfrosch]

Hi gress,

 

first of all....A VERY GOOD CHOICE!!!*LOL

 

I won´t start more promotion for the frogs yet, because all other members did it perfect! :wink:

 

Please keep in mind for time synchronized shows you´ll need at least a Leap Frog+ the MIDI/SMPTE hardware as upgrade.

 

You´ll also have to think of your final amount of movinglights and/or scrollers or other effects which need to be programmed as LTPs.

 

If you don´t need more than 48 HTP statics and 24 Fixtures a Leap Frog is giving you the best performance for "Live operating".

 

My personal favorite is the Mambo! :twisted: Up to 96 Fixtures(Single Dims or Movinglights), 73 Playbacks without switching a Submasterpage!!!! :mrgreen:

 

Probably, you should ask your local dealer for a demo.

 

cheers

Sven