Comments and Reviews of Frog 2

[Haytech]

Has anyone news about the new "Frog 2" ??

[K-Nine]

Has anyone news about the new "Frog 2" ??

 

I was just wondering that myself - it's all gone very quiet this week - perhaps everyone is still sobering up from PLASA

 

So folks, when you 've recovered from the annual Earls Court extravaganza we call PLASA ... how about posting you thoughts and comments on the new Frog 2 desk here.

[sp]

Hi

 

Really enjoyed PLASA this year.

Had a quick play with the new desk - looks very nice, esp. the touch screen - im sure you guys can add lots of functionality with that. There wasn't anyone around really to tell us about the desk, so we resorted to having a look ourselves, without much success.

 

Numeric keypad is definitely a good addition, as are 'proper' cursor keys to navigate with.

The grand master was the only let down for me, I much prefer it at the bottom - where you can get to it easily

 

Just to clarify then, the desk has 2 monitors?

 

As I say, we don't know much about what the new desk can do, and there wasn't really anyone to ask - I'm sure it has some fantastic features, though, which I'd love to hear about...

 

sp

[ice]

I was wondering if u guys could give us some more info on it. I can imagine the people who went to PLASA asked u all about it, and u told them some details on software, hardware, specifications etc. How about sharing that here? Unfortunately I wasn't there, but I'm still really eager to check out the way you sorted out several things. Just put the manual online or something like that K-Nine

[K-Nine]

Considering that the specification and user interface design are still in the development stage, and may well change as a result of feedback from PLASA this week, I don't think there will be a completed manual for the Frog 2 for a while

 

Edit: 17.09.04

NZ has kindly posted an overview of the functionality of the Frog 2 desk for the benefit of those who did not get a chance to see a preview of the desk this week at PLASA CLICK HERE

[richard_cooper]

I thought the USB socket on the front panel was a nice touch, I always have to pick my Fat Frog up to put a disk in as there is a window ledge behind it :twisted:

 

 

Two monitors can be run and you can save your own screen views so you can have what you want up for different actions. You can have more than one screen per monitor and can size them to fit multiple screens on the monitor.

 

I missed this feature at the show, but customising views is a good thing!

[K-Nine]

The various windows (eg Program Window, Cue Stack Window, Colour Palettes etc) can be displayed as full screen, half-screen or quarter-screen and positioned as required to suit the users personal preference.

[Haytech]

Sounds like poetry ...

All the things we where crying for are realized in the Frog2 *hurra* for that.

Hopefully they will be delivered in soon... So I can have a play at our local wholesaler LMP.

It will be very diffiult to convincing our *boss* to have a new lighting console after the Leap´s success.

 

thanks good I´m able to dream about...

[K-Nine]

Sounds like poetry ...

 

For more poetry ... CLICK HERE

[pazzer]

Hi, I was at PLASA myself and managed to have a good hour talking to Z88 about the new desk, here's what I found out:

 

The desk is pretty much completed hardware wise, but the software is currently still in Alpha stage, Z88 hope to release Frog2 around about March 2005 with the initial software version. But as with most Frog desks, I feel the software development will hold back the power of the desk, so it'll prob not be fully usable for at least 6 months after the release....

 

The guy showed me a lot about the desk, and asked me if there was anything in paticular that needed changing, for a start, the Console display needs to be much larger, i'm not sure about the exact size, but I think it's about 8'x8' which is far too small to use it without making navigation mistakes, even with a stylus. I therefore proposed a larger LCD, and also a scroll wheel to it's side for scrolling up and down on the display, similar to a scroll wheel on a PC mouse.

 

I'm not too sure on the keypad myself, the x THRU x style pad is too slow (as featured on the Illusion and others.) I much prefer the GUI that can be displayed on the monitors. The GUI hardly works currently because it's only had 1 week of programming apparently, but there seems like a lot of potential for a powerful interface. The USB/CD-R backup is nice, in fact I managed to acquire a Frog2 USB Memory stick from the stand..... don't ask how tho. ....

 

Hope this info is of help to ppl,

pazzer

[Kirkup_xp]

...about 8'x8' ...

 

Thats one big touch screen

[ice]

The desk is pretty much completed hardware wise, but the software is currently still in Alpha stage, Z88 hope to release Frog2 around about March 2005 with the initial software version. But as with most Frog desks, I feel the software development will hold back the power of the desk, so it'll prob not be fully usable for at least 6 months after the release....

 

You've got a pretty good point there; and I think it would be foolish releasing the console without proper software, so it's going to take I while I guess.

 

After reading the piece of text NZ posted here I'm still wondering about live playback. The faders aren't motorized right? That would mean you've got 10 faders for the playback stacks which I don't fully understand, and only 10 faders for "whatever you want". But that would mean I'll program effects and stuff in the lower 10 faders, program effect speeds sizes etc. in the top 10 faders, but where would I leave the 24 channels I use for flashing? :?:

On the current Frog I program like this:

channels 1-24 are different colors of frontlight, some floorspots in the front and maybe some effects I don't use often.

channels 25-48 contain the things I use often: backlighting for flashing, blinds, ACL, strobe's etc.

 

My question: is it possible to program such a show, and still be able to hit a SINGLE button to get an accent for instance? Because if that's not the fact; this isn't going to be my console and Im going to but an Avo (sorry guys) No offence, just curious about the way you're going to handle such things.

[pazzer]

Isn't it better not to look as far forward into the frog software/functionality design when the current hardware might not be appropiate for the potential functions?

 

I think b4 people start complaining about software functions they should be aware of the currently more important issues such as the desk hardware.

 

Motorised faders would be ideal, especially if frog could use the same fader pot's as they currently use on the Frog.

 

Kirkup, don't quote me on the screen size, and don't take the duck when i mistype the size either. 8"x8" isn't big enough.

 

pazzer

[ice]

I don't know if they're planning to actually alter the hardware?

[GLX]

How about planting a small screen under the subs to place text in, so as you change page the text changes, a newer version of the role a cue idea :?: save a fortune on pvc.

[sam.henderson]

or like the maxxyz turn the flash buttons into small text displays

 

Sam

[NZ]

Hi

 

To answer a lot of questions in one go....

 

You could hit one button for an accent. It is way more powerful for live than the existing Frogs as you have a lot more flexibility in what goes where. You may have to change the way you think slightly but perhaps you should look at it when it is all working.

 

Touch screen size. It is in fact 6x6 but before you all jump up and down wait again to see what is on it. It is not the main interface but rather a place to put user definable buttons. Its layout is not finnished and will be large enough for plump fingers to do the walking.

 

Finally we could use lots of things like LCD's and buttons with text on....how much do you want to pay? If you are happy to add £500 to retail cost then LCDs are an option. If you want buttons with text then you are talking about £80 per button at retail. That would make about £1000 at retail. Or it all appears on the monitors in a clear easy to read display....

[sam.henderson]

I know this may sound crazy but couldnt zero88 make orders to specification for instance you would have a basic frog II at £x then for LCD buttons you add £y, if you want another dmx universe its you addd £z etc.

 

Sam

[Haytech]

I don´t think that Frog² Consoles can be "costumized" as they do on cars.

Its a simple question of price you are willing to pay.

Again I´am not willing to pay for a gaming console.

[NZ]

Sam

 

As much as we would like to make it a custom console for each person it is not possible. The PCB's and drivers for things like buttons with text are all different to standard ones. If anything it would make the whole range more expensive. Nice idea but not practical at the moment.

[sam.henderson]

Fair enough thanks for answering, i know nothing about manufacturing anything really so it was just a random question

 

Sam

[pazzer]

Indeed, this is the idea that Martin have adopted on their new desk, under all the (motorised) faders, is a small LCD screen labeling the fader. This would be ideal, as I have found before the Frog to be too small for all the PVC i've needed for the Sub pages! This is even more of an issue for the Channel faders where palette info is stored, as I prefer not to have to look at a monitor to find what each flash button corresponds to.

[erikje]

To bad an add on wing for the martin costs about the same as a frog desk...

[ice]

To be honestly I think this design is absolutely worthless without motorised faders. Than you would have the normal Frog like we have now, with the ability of partial programming down to attribute level, but with the generic faders replaced by those 10 "memory masters".

And even like that I'm not quite sure yet... let's say I program page 1 for the frontlights, page 2 and 3 for backlighting (1 page on which every colour is programmed separately, and one for some combinations) and page 4 for the effects like blinders, floorspots, strobe etc.

Let's say the desk has motorised faders, otherwise this wouldn't even be possible: I'd like to set my frontlight in page 1, no problem... I'd like to use pages 2 and 3 for flashing, so I'm working on those pages. There comes an accent; I'd have to change to page 4 and hit the button for a second, change back again and continue my show. Not really a cool idea. Maybe extending the number of faders to 24 would solve the problem a little bit, using the page-structure isn't a 100% substitute for a number of hardware faders / buttons.

I still think the console is going to be nice, but these kind of things should really be thought of. When the situation is going to be like I described above; or even worse without any motorised faders... I'm not so sure I'd buy one for live stuff.

[K-Nine]

Ice,

 

To say that the design is worthless without motorised faders seems a little strong especially as you do not appear to have seen the actual desk or had all the functionality explained to you.

 

May I suggest that you contact Graham (NZ) as he is probably the best person to explain how all the different features on the desk can be configured to produce the functionality you require.