Leap frog 48 LCD windows ‘peeling’ and going hazy

[Trapdoor]

I have a Leap Frog 48 I use for the local dramatics group - it doesn’t get much use really, but I’ve noticed that a couple of the LCD windows have started to go a bit hazy, especially the one above the submasters/playbacks. On close inspection it looks like the ‘shiny’ surface is delaminating/peeling off and it leaves a matt surface underneath which makes the LCD blurry.

Has anyone else experienced this and if so found a way to restore the clarity of the LCD window(s) where this has happened?

I am guessing it’s impossible or very expensive to get a replacement front panel? It’s not a major issue but it can make reading the text below difficult.

[iank99]

11 hours ago, Trapdoor said:

I have a Leap Frog 48 I use for the local dramatics group - it doesn’t get much use really, but I’ve noticed that a couple of the LCD windows have started to go a bit hazy, especially the one above the submasters/playbacks. On close inspection it looks like the ‘shiny’ surface is delaminating/peeling off and it leaves a matt surface underneath which makes the LCD blurry.

Sadly it's an issue that's always plagued the front panel windows on the Frog/Leapfrog series - I first noticed the issue with a Fat Frog we used to hire back in the early noughties. The inside surface of the window used to be sprayed with a lacquer to improve visibility but the quality of that lacquer seemed to vary between batches (it was bought in from another supplier) - some desks see the lacquer fail - a lot don't.

I've repaired a couple of Solutions where the lacquer had started to fail so the owner had carefully scraped the remaining lacquer off the window using a razor blade I presume.

@KWR88 used to know of a lacquer that could be used to touch up the front panel (after clearing the failed windows) - he's not back in the office until Tuesday next week so perhaps drop him an eMail about that. I've never bothered trying to refurb the lacquers, you certainly won't get a new front panel nowadays & most people seem happy to soldier on because they have a monitor & keyboard plugged in so they don't have to rely on the LCD's. 

[Trapdoor]

Thanks Ian, I guessed that would be the case.

It doesn’t make the display completely unreadable but I certainly find it on the Playbacks easier to quickly identify the right playback by the tag in the LCD.

It certainly looks like it’s a lacquer that’s peeling off. It’s an extremely thin layer and I had wondered if it would be possible to re-spray the windows it the correct ‘stuff’ was available.

I’d be happy to stick a Solution front panel on if one was available but I guess that’s not an option either.

Cheers for the reply.

 

[Edward Z88]

On 2/3/2024 at 3:52 PM, Trapdoor said:

I’d be happy to stick a Solution front panel on if one was available but I guess that’s not an option either.

If you would like to see what options there may be regarding front panel metalwork, please send us an email to support@zero88.com including your console's serial number.

[iank99]

@Trapdoor - just spoken to Keith & he's going to look through his notes to see if he can find an RS part number for a lacquer. I also searched the forum & there's a an old (20 years old!) thread that covered this...

linky

There's also a novel solution provided at the end of the thread

As an aside - it was memory provoking to see Peter Kirkup's contribution in that thread but like I say - it's a 20 year old thread

[Trapdoor]

On 2/5/2024 at 1:44 PM, Edward Z88 said:

If you would like to see what options there may be regarding front panel metalwork, please send us an email to support@zero88.com including your console's serial number.

@Edward Z88 … many thanks, Will do 👍🏼

[Trapdoor]

21 hours ago, iank99 said:

@Trapdoor - just spoken to Keith & he's going to look through his notes to see if he can find an RS part number for a lacquer. I also searched the forum & there's a an old (20 years old!) thread that covered this...

linky

There's also a novel solution provided at the end of the thread

As an aside - it was memory provoking to see Peter Kirkup's contribution in that thread but like I say - it's a 20 year old thread

@iank99 Oh, thanks for that. The solution though does look a bit drastic and there are more LCDs on the newer leap frog to have to deal with. I’m not sure how well re-lacquering would work, but I do have a friend who owns a car body shop so perhaps it’s something he could tackle. I’d prefer to try it on a scrap panel first though!

I guess in original manufacture it was a cheaper solution for Zero88 to use a one-piece front and just lacquer over the windows rather than have separate and possibly replaceable acrylic windows, but knowing the potential abuse these desks could take, that would have been preferable in the long term.

[iank99]

9 minutes ago, Trapdoor said:

I guess in original manufacture it was a cheaper solution for Zero88 to use a one-piece front and just lacquer over the windows rather than have separate and possibly replaceable acrylic windows, but knowing the potential abuse these desks could take, that would have been preferable in the long term.

I believe that the front panel was punched separately & a PVC transfer then applied for the labelling & windows. On desks like the Sirius & Lightmaster series - they had to manually stick red plastic over the LED windows to improve visibility which was obviously time consuming, so a means of streamlining this was more than welcome.

I guess that the adhesive protector on the back of the transfer was probably used as a mask for the lacquer - this might also explain why the lacquer sometimes failed, because of airborne contaminants when the transfer was applied to the metalwork or simply at some point in service, acetone or what have you got inside the desk.

To be honest - I've only seen one Leapfrog/Solution come to me over the last 6 years with failed lacquer so it's not common - just annoying when it happens

[KWR88]

It may be possible for to attempt to repair this, as we had good success with demo/repair units that came back with damage displays. 

We used a clear lacquer from RS part number 569 307, however this has been discontinued and they have recommended 136-8535 as a replacement (link at bottom of page), Obvously i have not tried this one myself.

As Ian mention you do need to remove all of the top layer of the damage display first. Once this has been done use electrical tape to mask the area off, have found any other tape can interact with the lacquer and leave stick mess on the desk front panel.

Make sure the desk is then on a level surface then apply a single coat of the spray. Wait a few minuets then remove the electrical tape. Allow the lacquer to dry in a warm dust free environment for a few hours.           

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/electronics-varnishes/1368535?searchId=b9aa3e9e-1bf3-4f21-ba99-5afabb957a9b&gb=s

[Trapdoor]

Hi @KWR88 … many thanks for the info. I’ll have a think about the best way to do this and may have a chat with my car body repair friend to see if he could do it in his spray booth. I’d hate to make things worse than they already are.

Any suggestions for removal of the old lacquer or is it just a case of scraping it off with a blade?

Edward’s message above seemed to imply there may be an option to replace the panel? Are there any spares available do you know?

[KWR88]

Once the top layer is damged you can normally use some thing like masking or gaffa tape to remove the rest.

Basically i would wrap this around my fingers and role this across the display appling a slight pressure. it then picks up fragments as it goes. May take a few attempts to get it all off.

Not sure on replacement panels as we discontined the leap frog a number of years ago and i know there are none avaialble. We may have some of the solution metal work available but would need to confirm the manufacturing plant on that. 

[Trapdoor]

1 hour ago, KWR88 said:

Not sure on replacement panels as we discontined the leap frog a number of years ago and i know there are none avaialble. We may have some of the solution metal work available but would need to confirm the manufacturing plant on that. 

@KWR88 given my poor skills with painting anything, I’d like to explore all possibilities before I screw the desk up more than it is. I’d have a crack at it if I had a spare panel to use first. Would appreciate if you could check to see if you do have a spare panel of whatever type available 🙏

Thank you for the help and advice so far.