K-Nine

Are you referring to the time and date in the Information Bar (bottom right hand corner of monitor screen), or are there other areas this applies to :?: The manual does state that the clock is in 24 hour format and the date is dd/mm/yyyy :wink: Do you think that it would it be a good idea to have a user selectable option in Desk Setup to display the clock in 12 or 24 hour formats, and the date in day/month/year or month/day/year. PS I have always found the US date convention confusing ... 5/6/2003 will always be 5th June to me, not the 6th May

Would it be facetious if I said look at the submasters screen on the monitor I assume you mean by looking at the submaster section on the front panel of the desk itself :?: Can't really help you there I haven't figured out how to get the search to work either ... I have the same problem as sometimes similar topics are covered in several different forums :roll: Having checked through the spec again, I don't think we use a solid light in the submaster flash buttons at present; therefore this could be used to indicate that the sub contains data (channel data or transferred memory) as you suggest. However, a flashing light is already used to indicate that data is being output from a submaster, but not from the current page (ie Page overlay).

Yes, one of our R&D guys also commented on this and after revisiting the Illusion after several years on Frogs, I agree Illusion Reference No 4703 - Multi-Part Scenes - Should be able to edit and move between different parts without having to close the CDW - to be reviewed. With regards your second point, I can see how being able to move channel data between parts would be useful. 8) Do you have any thoughts or ideas on how you would like to do this using the existing front panel controls :?

Interesting ... the Illusion desks have been out in the market for 4/5 years now and you are the first one to mention this I haven't seen that many other lighting desks myself, but I take your word that the others you have used have the fade up time before the fade down time. I wonder therefore, is it because you have a wider experience of different desks, often use different up/down times in your memories or are simply the first person to actually voice an opinion on this topic ? Maybe some other users generally use the default fade times, have the same fade up/down times or simply haven't noticed, or care which way round they are displayed on the monitor screen :evil: I don't have any problem suggesting that we swap the fade up/down times around - I assume that the delay up/down times should also be swapped for consistency Having checked other screens on the Illusion (eg Submasters) and various screens on the Frog series of desks, the Memories screen does seem inconsistent and I cannot think why it was never noticed before :? Onto your second point, you can enter a fade time using the front panel numeric keypad, an external keypad or by using the control wheel. :wink:

According to the DMX data I have on the MAC 500: Channel 5 is the Rotating Gobo Selection - To select a gobo for indexing set a value in the range 0-155; to select a gobo for rotation, set a value between 156-255. This parameter is displayed as "RotGobo" on the wheel LCD. Channel 6 is the Rotating Gobo Index/Rotation - 0-2 is static, 3-127 is CCW rotation from slow to fast, 128-251 is CW rotation fast to slow and 252-255 is static. This parameter is displayed as "Ind/Rot" on the wheel LCD. Happy spinning

Possibly, if we extend the functionality of the UNDO EDIT function. Currently it only works in two specific cases. 1 To undo channel edits in the Channel Data Window 2 To undo an accidental save of channel data from the CDW to a memory or submaster. ... it only did the first case originally, and the second one caused no end of headaches :roll:

It would certainly appear that the syntax you are describing is a hybrid of what we term single digit percentage and double digit percentage (leaving aside the direct action or not to save even further confusion) :!: Sometimes the software multiples the value you enter by ten (saving you a keystroke), sometimes it takes the actual value you enter (logical, captain), and sometimes you need to add a leading zero to get the value you want (requires an additional keystroke) :evil: Swings and Roundabouts, I guess :roll:

It would appear from this thread of conversation that it is actually the concept of 'captured' channels that needs addressing on the illusion rather than debating the minutae of command line syntax, would you agree ? :wink: Are we back to 'unprogramming' channels again and is this specifically related to 'tracking' mode which is an area we are currently re-evaluating for the Illusion 500 ?

Channel Display Window ?? We may be confusing monitor display areas here :? Are you referring to the Channel Data Window (CDW) which is opened using the Channel or Edit buttons, or the Channel Data Display which is permanently displayed below the memories/submasters/cueline screens and above the fade status bar ? There is also the possible confusion if you are using the numerics version of the CDW since when it is opened it apppears in the area of the screen used by the CDD :roll:

The CDW, and to a lesser extent the Channel Data Display already has a fairly comprehensive colour coding specification which covers several of the 'states' you have suggested. For example, Brightness, Scroller and Attribute channels are different colours. Selected channels are shown in red. Excluded channels are shown in darker colours. On the bar graphs, green indicates live values, yellow programmed values, blue blind values, orange multi-part scene values etc... Some of the states you suggest we do not currently have for channels, but I suspect we may need to review this as we develop the software for the 500. The DMX Output screen has recently been improved to distinguish between channels which are rising and falling as opposed to just changing. Determining the actual source of a channels value is a non-trivial matter and could result in rapid colour changes of numeric data which may lead to confusion, rather than clarity. I am sure this particular point has been raised before and is lurking somewhere in the Illusion database .. I will have to check

I think this is as a result of the way the memory data is stored in dynamic RAM, and then backed up to non-volatile RAM and ultimately onto flash disk. While experienced users would certainly benefit from not having to confirm all data changes when editing memory data (fade times etc), less confident users would probably like the 'safety net' of being able to cancel changes which may have been made in error. Assuming, that it was possible to automatically save all changes as they were entered (Simon ??), maybe we should consider having an option in Desk Setup to allow the user to choose the method he prefers :?:

I take your point, but the main concept behind the Cueline screen on the Illusion desks is that it is an alternative GRAPHICAL representation of the memory stack. The various delay, fade, and dwell times are represented by the length of the lines on the tracks rather than numerical values displayed in a table. Adding additional times would reduce the available space for the actual cueline tracks, which is already quite tight if you are using multi-part scenes and a full height Channel Data Display

Because 35 is not a valid number in single digit format. In single digit format (with direct action or not) you enter a TENTH of the required percentage value eg 1 gives you 10% 2 gives you 20% 3 gives you 30% etc... Therefore to get 35% you enter 3.5 Personally I have always found double digit percentage the easiest and most logical to use as you enter the actual percentage value you want 8)

That is a possibility, but I'm not sure it is as intuitive as using 'CLEAR' for unprogramming channels. However, I have just remembered that using CLEAR by itself is used to deselect any currently selected channels, so that would have to be another command line change

The Sirius couldn't do this either. The only difference with Sirius was that you could program up to 512 DMX channels (ie. all of them) to a single fader. Each DMX channel could only be controlled by one fader, but each fader could control multiple channels... the same as the Frog range. You get into all manner of additional processing overhead if you have to mix multiple desk channels to a single DMX channel, especially when you start to get into fades, chases etc. The limit of 10 was put into place in part due to the screen layouts, as it made the console usable. So far, we haven't had much negative feedback about the maximum number of duplicates.

You cannot patch several desk channels (or fixtures) to the same DMX channel.

Based on that theory ALL lighting desks would be based on a Level 6

If the clear button was not used anywhere else in the command line syntax, then this request would provide a quick and simple method of clearing the command line ... however ... The Clear key is used when unprogramming channels in a partial memory, eg CHANNEL 1 THRU 5 @ CLEAR Therefore if we wished Clear to completely clear the command line in all situations we would need to change the command for unprogramming channels :?

This has already been suggested and is logged in our database: Illusion Reference No 4463 - Previous and Next Channel functions - to be reviewed.

Hi Nick, You should be able to enter a value as 3.5 to get 35% when in single digit mode. On the current Illusion desks there are 5 different formats for entering channel levels to cater for all tastes especially those who prefer single digit, direct action (no enter required), or both 8) Each of the formats are described, with examples in the manual.

When we improved the movements effects engine in version 7 software by adding the offset and rotation parameters, the function was extensively tested in out demo room with 6 moving head fixtures (MAC 250s , I think). All the parameters worked fine. Because of the way the movement effects are synchronised when programming them initially, it is sometimes necessary to output the memory or submaster after it has been programmed to check that the fixtures are running at the correct offsets or rotations. I will send you a copy of my test notes which hopefully will explain this in more detail.

As mentioned in the post above, the desk has to be in partial program mode for this to work. To record only the brightness levels of the fixtures, ensure that all fixtures are untagged prior to pressing the PROGRAM button. See Frog Series Operating Manual (Issue 5) page 5-3 for details.

We hope we included everything in the manual, if we missed anything, please let us know! The latest version of the manuals can be downloaded from here. If you find the manual uses terminology which you're not familiar with, or you want to know how to quickly create effects, or you want to ask questions, or if you want to start right at the beginning with the basics of lighting control, you might find it easier to attend one of our training days. Full details are available from here. The latest Frog Series Operating Manual is Issue 5 (November 2002) which should include all the new functionality included in Release 7.5 of the desk software. Information on additional features provided in Release 8.1 software can be found in the corresponding software release notes accompanying the software release.

It is possible to use moving lights on a Frog desk, but with only 48 generic channels available I wouldn't recommend it All the channels would be processed as HTP channels which are only really suitable for brightness. The MAC 500 uses between 12 and 16 DMX channels, so you would only be able to use 3/4 fixtures on a Frog unless you paired up their start addresses. If you had several channels of dimming as well then the number of available desk channels for ypour ML's would be reduced even further. I would recommend a Fat Frog which is designed for use with up to 12 moving light fixtures, as well as 48 generic/dimmer channels. The user interface on the fat frog is designed to make programming colour, beamshape (eg gobos) and position fixture parameters very simple, and the desk also provides partial memory/submaster data and has a very nice movement effects engine. 8)

<chuckles> Thanks for the heads-up Bryson.. The only anti-frog rhetoric comes from the normal source of such comments in internet discussion forums.... and there is no accounting for that :-)