K-Nine

Would this be a technical topic (operation, features, bugs etc) or more of a social chat type topic ? I'd have to find a moderator who was multi-lingual

Probably not :oops: I'm not sure why it does this - I will have to ask our software guru :wink: I agree it would be better if it could be removed.

Your analysis of the problem is spot on, and as you say the reason is apparent from the Cueline screen I take your point that as there is no C/B/P data in the memory, why should the C/P/P fade times affect the duration of the memory. I cannot offer a simple solution at the moment; it is something we will need to review. Interestingly, during the software development, we had a similar problem, but the other way round, ie if the brightness delays,fades and dwells completed before any of the C/B/P tracks it would move onto the next memory without completing the C/B/P transitions Agreed, that would solve the problem for this particular case If you had to do this for a few memories in the show I guess it wouldn't be too much of a problem, but I can see it could be a pain if you had to change the C/B/P times of lots of memories. That is one reason why it is important to set the required default fade times in Desk Setup before starting to plot your memories. From your earlier comment it sounds like you realised this An Interesting idea - I'm not sure how we could implement this but it is something we will look into. You can adjust the fade up and fade down times together on the Brightness track on the Cueline screen; not sure how this could be extended across the C/B/P tracks as well - need to put my designing hat back on

Point taken, yes there does still appear to be a problem with the positioning of the current/next memories within the memories screen when switching between stay and follow modes after editing. There was a good reason why editing a memory caused the display to switch to Stay Mode, and when I remember what it was I will let you know

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Please could you clarify what you mean by 'add a fixture' :? Do you mean assign a fixture to a fixture type or use a different fixture type which is from the fixture library on floppy disk ?

Simply repatching a fixture to a different DMX address should not have any affect on the fixture data already programmed in the memories, submasters and palettes; if it does then this is a bug. We will be looking into this. However if you were to unassign the fixture, reassign it (even to the same fixture type) and repatch it, this would affect the programmed fixture data - CLICK HERE for further details.

Theoretically with CYM parameters there are 16,777,216 combinations 8O There are some fixtures which have CYM AND one or more colour wheels !

Re-assigning a fixture type after programming memories, submasters and palettes is not a simple operation, when considering the underlying data structures in the desk. Firstly, the desk unassigns (deletes) the original fixture type and therefore removes that fixture's data from the programmed memories, submasters and palettes. It then inserts the new fixture type into the memories,subs and palettes where it was previously programmed. The difference between the parameters in the old and new fixture types may be trivial or may be significant. A desk at this level is not designed to try and make assumptions between the parameters of two different fixture types. That is why the new fixture is inserted with zero brightness and default values for its LTP parameters.

I suggest that you check out the following thread for a discussion on this subject : http://support.zero88.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=320 In particular Tim's comment posted on June 3.

I assume you are referring to pages of submasters here :?: Frog Reference No 5366 - More Submaster Pages - to be reviewed. Also check out THIS TOPIC.

I have not noticed this myself; if the fade up and fade down times are set to zero, then the HTP channels (generics and fixture brightnesses) should snap to their programmed values on triggering the memory. Have you looked at the outputs screen when triggering the memory to see if the values snap or appear to fade ? It could always be the fixture itself which may have problems fading very quicky (eg if it has a mechanical dimmer) or maybe it has some timing parameters ?

That will be a decision for the Sales/Marketing dept when we review all the features which have been suggested for the frog desks. I think the delay function is more of a feature on the Illusion 500 desks where you can have a delay up and delay down for brightness (HTP) and separate delays for colour, beamshape and position parameters, if you wish 8) This makes for quite complex fades, but the Illsuion has a more graphical interface designed to display such information :wink:

You can only 'edit' a submaster which is already programmed either with channel data or a transferred memory. If by 'edit' you actually mean Program an unprogrammed submaster with channel data, you display the submaster screen, select your submaster, set up your generic channels and/or fixtures as required and press PROGRAM. See Frog Series Operating Manual - Chapter 5 for full details.

This is why we developed the Leap Frog (24 fixtures) and the Mambo Frog (96 fixtures) desks in the series Both of these desks are the same physical size as the fat frog but are designed to handle more moving light fixtures.

You are quite right and we have already spotted this As the problem is mainly with the visual feedback on the palettes screen rather than with the actual referencing or output of the palette, it was decided that this should not delay the release of the moving light software. This problem appears to occur when only some of the fixture's parameters are programmed in the selected palette, or if in the combination of selected fixtures, only some of the fixtures are programmed in the palette. It also depends on whether the Primary Fixture is partially or fully programmed in the selected palette. Illusion Reference No 4732 - Program Window - Palettes.

I knew someone would raise this issue As you suggest the control wheel operates in the way most people would expect, ie you roll the wheel upwards to increase the value. This is how the control wheels work on the Sirius 250/500, Frog series and Illusion 120/240/500 desks. However, the parameter detail list is also displayed in what most people would regard as the correct order for that type of gadget, ie as you go down the list the corresponding DMX value increases. I think we may have to wait a while and see what other feedback we get on this before reversing either the wheel or the parameter list, as we could easily annoy as many users as we please :shock:

Yes you can, the command line syntax has been extended to do this with LTP parameters In Desk Setup - Desk Defaults, you need to ensure that the LTP Format is set to DMX. (This is the default value). The fixture parameters are grouped into attributes (Brightness, Colour, Beamshape and Position) and within each of the LTP attributes, each parameter has its own numeric identifier displayed in the Program Window to the left of the parameter name. For example, the Martin MAC 500 has eight Beamshape parameters spread over three wheel groups as follows: 1 Sh/Res 2 RotGobo 3 Ind/Rot 4 FixGobo 5 Focus 6 Iris 7 Prism 8 Oth Spd The command syntax for setting an individual parameter is: FIXTURE X <ATTRIBUTE> Y @ Z ENTER Therefore to set the iris to 255 in the above example you would enter the command: FIXTURE 1 BEAMSHAPE 6 @ 255 ENTER.

Actually, it's neither :? The Fade Up and Fade Down times only affect the HTP channels (the generic dimmer channels and fixture brightness parameters) The LTP Fade time is the transition time for LTP channels (fixture colour, beamshape and position parameters). The Colour, Beamshape and Position actions determine whether the corresponding fixture parameters use the LTP fade time or snap to their programmed values when the memory is triggered. For example, if a moving light was programmed in the next memory and you wanted the colours and gobos to snap to their new values and the position to fade to its new value you would set the Colour, Beamshape and Position actions to Snap, Snap and Fade respectively and the LTP fade time to the required fade time. Scrollers have a colour parameter, so if you want the scroller to change instantly (or as fast as the actual gel will move), you need to set the Colour Action to Snap; Hope this makes things clearer

Just because it has a Frog Reference Number does NOT guarantee it will be implemented :wink: We have received loads of suggestions for possible features, but they all have to be reviewed, and decisions made as to which are the most important, feasible, economical etc.

If you do a save as .. to a memory and then to the submaster you have to remember to tag the channels/parameters again before doing the second save (assuming you are running in partial mode). The act of doing a save as.. to a memory or submaster automatically untags all the channels/parameters. Is there a reason why you are saving the 'scene' to both a memory and a submaster ? I am a bit confused as to why changing the fade times on submasters should have any effect on playing back the cues from the playback X :? The fade times on the submasters are independent of the fade times for the memory, even if you transfer the memory onto a submaster. Assuming that the desk is in Partial Mode - There is also a difference between outputting memories on the playback x and via submasters. On the playback x you are considering the fade between the current and next memory and take into account all of the dimmer channels in those memories. With submasters - as you raise and lower the submaster fader you are only affecting the programmed(tagged) channels in the data on that submaster.

Another thing to remember with the HTP (dimmer channel and fixture brightness) fades between memories on the memory stack using Playback X: The output values of a dimmer channel or fixture brightness parameter will be determined by its values in the current and next memories: If the channel/parameter is going from a lower value to a higher value - it will fade up in the Fade Up time of the incoming memory. If the channel/parameter is going from a higher value to a lower value - it will fade down in the Fade Down time of the incoming memory. If the channel/parameter has the same value in both memories, it will remain at that value during the transition.

I am not sure what is happening here :? I have just tried it on a desk, and when you edit live an unprogrammed memory - the fixture parameters are set to zero - not 255. Illusion Reference No 4731 - Edit Live an unprogrammed memory. Is there any possibility that the fixture parameters were set to 255 in an earlier memory and these values are being tracked through ? An alternative method to try might be to open the program window using the channel or fixture buttons, set up the data as required then save as the memory number you want.

Firstly the memory and submaster defaults in desk setup will only be applied to memories and submasters programmed after you have adjusted the default values. Any memories or subs you have recorded prior to this will retain their fade times - however these can be adjusted as required on the memories or submasters screens. With memories - the delay up, delay down, fade up and fade down times only apply to the dimmer channels and fixture brightness parameters. When on the memories screen ensure that the red light in the Brightness button is lit. Any colour,beamshape and position parameters programmed in the memory data will behave according to their own delay and transition times. To display these times on the memories screen press the Colour, Beamshape or Position button as required; the column headings on the memory screen change accordingly.

The updated manual for the Illusion 500 which contains all the information about the new moving light control is nearly ready and will be made available for downloading as soon as it has been approved for issue. For the conventionals, use the 'dimmer channels' which are equivalent to the generic/preset faders on a frog. For the scrollers you will need to assign some fixutres as scrollers in the assign fixtures screen in Desk Setup. For the MACs you will need to assign fixtures as the appropriate MAC fixture and mode. If the fixture type is not already on the desk, you will need to download the fixture library which is available on this website. As far as the moving light functionality goes, the Illusion 500 works in a very similar way to the frog series of desks, except that it has a more graphical interface allowing mouse and keyboard operation as well as operation from the front panel. The Illusion 500 uses the same fixture library data as the frogs; so fixtures contain parameters which are classified into brightness (intensity), colour, beamshape and position. The Illusion 500 has colour, beamshape and position palettes and has the same movement effects engine as the frogs.