K-Nine

The conductor of a large orchestra wasn't happy with the performance of one of the percussionists. Repeated attempts to get the drummer to improve failed miserably. So finally, in front of the entire orchestra, he said in a loud voice. "When a musician just can't handle his instrument they take it away from him, give him two sticks and make him a drummer !". First silence and then various mumblings came from the assembled members of the orchestra. Then a voice was heard from the back, "And if he can't handle being a drummer, they take away one of his sticks and make him a conductor !"

I'm sure the question of show file format and the ability to edit it offline via a PC has been covered elsewhere in these forums. Each time new functions are added or modified to the frog software this may well have an effect on the format of the data stored in the show file. For example - in Release 9 there was extra data for chases (n-shots), for submasters with channel data (extra times and LTP actions) and for assigned fixtures (pan/tilt reverse and swap). You then have issues of loading old shows onto desks with later software and vice versa - the desk s/w either has to ignore additional data it does not expect or understand, or has to fill in default values for data not present in older show files. If you have the ability to edit show files on a PC, then the software on the PC also needs to perform some sort of validation on the updated file to ensure that it is in a valid format, otherwise who knows what may happen when it is reloaded onto the desk. I'm not suggesting that we won't add additional functionality to the Phantom Frog in the future, or that users out there are not capable of writing useful PC utilities for interrogating/analysing/modifying show files (if we were to publish the show file format) ... I'm just trying to point out some of the potential issues that may arise.

Four candles ? Sorry that was a hardware store not a church .. my mistake

There are some interesting ideas here, but this would involve separate development of the frog series software for the desks and for the Phantom Frog .... ... so how much would you be prepared to PAY for an improved offline editor I wonder

Although there are only four 'shapes' defined for the movement effects, by adjusting the x-size, y-size and rotation parameters a lot of other 'shapes' can be produced (circles, squares, diamonds, simple lines, sinusoidal lines etc...) Use of the offset parameter can also provide some quite spectacular effects very easily.

Cheers Sam, you saved me the job of searching for my earlier reply

I think they normally refer to them as hymns

Hi folks, I was born in Nottingham in the year of the Rome olympics and the first episode of "Coronation Street" 8O I spent three years at Warwick University (which is closer to Coventry than Warwick), learning how to play pool, pinball and frisbee golf. I must have done some studying as well, as I left there with a degree in Engineering Science in 1982 A year after graduating, I moved to Cwmbran in South Wales to work as a software engineer for Ferranti. In the 10 years I worked there I was involved in a number of different projects including Royal Navy Command and Control Systems, Helicopter simulations and power stations. Best moment while working for Ferranti - A barbecue on the flight deck of HMS Brave while sailing on a very calm sea between Gibraltar and Alicante in the middle of summer 8) I joined Zero 88 in 1995 and have worked on several products including the Sirius 250/500, Illusion 120/240, Alcora and Elara, the Frog series, Chilli dimmers and controllers and the Illusion 500. Originally employed as a software engineer (I vaguely remember writing some code several years ago !), I now spend most of my time writing specifications and user interface designs, testing lighting desks and dimmers, producing operating manuals (which apparently some people do actually read 8O ), and being the site administrator for both the Frog and Illusion support forums ... as you can probably tell by my number of posts Below is a picture of me and my 'mistress' (nice hat !)

I appreciate the problem of getting a Bull Frog front panel on a monitor screen - these issues are covered in the Phantom Frog forum. If the show you are working on has less than 48 generic channels and only uses one DMX universe, you could always set up the Phantom Frog to be a Leap Frog - much narrower front panel

I guess the simple work-around is to not lock the monitor screen onto one of the palette screens if you intend editing memories, submasters or SX buttons There are other issues relating to locking monitor screens and the palette lock function which we also need to investigate further.

Can the PC or laptop running the Phantom Frog software support a dual monitor output :twisted:

I would just like to point out that details of the new and modified functions which were added in Release 9 of the software are documented in both the Release Notes and the updated versions of the Frog Series and Mambo Frog manuals. The main functions are also summarised in the 'sticky' topics in the Frog Software Releases Forum. I should know as I wrote all of them ! 8O Updating the manuals does take a fair amount of time, especially when the functional updates are as many and varied as those in Release 9. At least, I only have to do the English ones :wink: Tip of the Week: R.T.F.M (Read the Frog Manual)

I've just been trawling through the archives and verified that the monitor output screens (including the Fixture Outputs screen) were first implemented in Software Version 3, and documented in Issue 2 of the Frog Series Operating Manual - both September 2001 8O

The Frog Series Operating Manual (Issue 6) - Page 7-11. It's amazing what nuggets of useful information can be found in the "Other Features" chapter of the manual OK, I agree that the background colours on the Fixture Outputs screen could do with toning down a bit, but I have always found this screen useful when testing moving light functionality, especially when the desk isn't actually connected to the rig

The Fixture Outputs Screen has been there for quite a while (Software Version 3 I think) ... I wonder how many other users haven't spotted it yet :oops: Here is an example (courtesy of Phantom Frog):

Are you perhaps confusing the two different monitor output screens :?: The Desk Channel Outputs screen shows generic channel and fixture brightness outputs and the fixture parameter output values for the 'primary fixture' (if a fixture is selected). This screen is displayed on the monitor by pressing the Outputs button on the front panel. However, in a previous post I suggested displaying the Fixture Outputs screen on the monitor, as you can see the output values of all fixture parameters for 12 fixtures at a time, compared with the Desk Channel Outputs screen and the wheel LCD which only show the values for the 'primary fixture'. Fixture Outputs Screen - Press and hold F1 and then one of the fixture selection buttons. The fixture selection button pressed determines the order in which the fixtures are displayed on the monitor screen, for example on the Fat Frog: F1 + Fixture 1 Selection Button -> Displays Fixtures 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 F1 + Fixture 7 Selection Button -> Displays Fixtures 7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6 On the larger desks, the monitor displays 12 fixtures starting at the fixture number selected.

Not sure I quite follow the problem then When I tried it out yesterday on a Fat Frog - if the monitor screen was locked on Colour palettes and you then went into Edit mode, pressing Beamshape or Position did not change the monitor screens to the corresponding palettes, and the channel flash button/palette select buttons also remained indicating the Colour palettes ! This is the bug that I thought you were describing 8O

Moderation: "Wheel Editing Modes" added to topic title, to reflect additional subject Ice is mostly correct except for a couple of details on the fan modes The fan modes work on the selected fixtures in fixture number order. It doesn't matter which of the selected fixtures is the primary fixture - that just determines which DMX value appears on the wheel LCD as you adjust the parameter levels, ie the value on the LCD represents the parameter for the selected fixture with the red flashing LED. That is why for example if you have fixtures 1-5 selected and fixture 1 is the primary fixture (red LED flashing) andthe wheel edit mode is set to Fan-First, moving a control wheel will not appear to change the DMX value. This is because the LCD is showing the value of fixture 1, which in this case is locked - the parameter values for fixtures 2-5 will be fanning out accordingly as you move the wheel. If one of the other selected fixtures was the 'primary fixture' the LCD would show it's parameter value - and this would change as you moved the wheel. I suggest that you try displaying the Fixture Outputs screen on the monitor and look at the parameter values for the different fixtures as you move the wheel Experiment with different fixture selections and the different wheel editing modes, and it should all become clearer The combination of the wheel editing modes (particularly the fan functions)and the movement effect parameters provide a very quick and powerful way of creating effects with moving lights It's just one of those things that is easier to demonstrate with a desk and a few moving lights that to describe acurately in words 8O

The Frog Screen Operating Manual - Issue 2. To download a copy of the new Frog Screen Operating Manual CLICK HERE

Is there no red LED fitted in the Blackout button, or is there one but it's not working ?

Is the problem that when you are in "Edit Mode" and the monitor screen is locked on a palettes, that the main monitor screen does not follow the attribute button presses (Colour, Beamshape, Position) ?

Frog Reference No 5348 - Ability to set/adjust chase speed via LCD using BPM - to be reviewed.

Apologies, as I don't speak German Haytech and Felix: Have you sorted out the snap.fade problem or is there something that still needs explaining or investigating ?

I don't think there is a simple way of achieving this effect at the moment .. except for getting an operator to hit the flash buttons in time with the music :idea: One possibility may be to extend the functionality of the remote switches such that they can be assigned to items other than the GO button or Go to a specified memory. If, for example, it was possible to assign flash buttons to remote switches, then perhaps the bass drive of the music could be set up to trigger the remote switches which would in turn simulate pressing the corresponding flash buttons. Frog Reference No 5487 - Extend options for Remote Switches - to be reviewed.

You and me both, Sam. I've read this thread several times and I'm still non the wiser :?