K-Nine

I don't think it is likely that we will be changing how or where the 'speed' of a chase is stored at this stage of the software development. Fundamental internal data structures are best left alone at this advanced stage 8O You can adjust the speed of a chase live as you have said you like doing. It's just that when the chase is first run, it will run at it's programmed speed, and you will need to pick up that speed with the control to adjust it live. If you are running a simple brightness chase say on the subs - you could always set a low trigger level (eg 5%) so that the chase will run as soon as the fader reaches 5%, raise the sub passed the trigger level so the chase runs but the lights are barely visible, adjust the speed using the speed control to the required value and then raise the submaster fader to 100%. One advantage of the way we implemented live chase modifier adjustment in release 9.0 is that you can adjust all chases running from the submasters, playback X or SX buttons (Mambo), or select one or more chases to adjust and leave the others running as normal. Flexibility, you see, which hopefully pleases most of the people for most of the time

[pedant mode on] I think Paul means "coarse" [pedant mode off] Please note - I was not responsible for either the content or layout of the Diablo User Manual as you can probably tell by it's unique "style"

Have you tried posting a request in the Classified section of the Blue Room ? CLICK HERE

There are a few things you might need to think about here: Where are the lights pointing before you run the chase ? If they are not already at the position in step 1 of the chase they will take a finite time to reach the 'step 1' state - this will be determined by the LTP fade time of the memory. Therefore it's probably best to set the LTP fade for the memory to zero and ensure that they are in the correct position before running the chase. The Fade Up time of the memory will also be applicable if the lights are not at 100% before the chase is triggered. The fade up/fade down and LTP fade times relate to how the outputs behave when the memory is triggered - ie the transition to the first step of the chase. The Attack, Col Action, Beam Action and Pos Action relate to how the outputs behave when moving between steps of the chase when it is up and running. As your chase involves both brightness and position parameters changing between steps, check that the Attack and Posiiton Action modifiers are set to the correct values. If you want the lights to fade out in step 3, ensure the Attack modifier is set to Fade (/). With the position I think you have two options depending on the way movement is handled on the fixture itself. Some fixtures can be set to track the DMX output of the desk as far as possible, so the speed of the chase will determine how long it takes to move the lights from position A to position B. Some fixtures have an Mspeed parameter, so the fixture itself works out how long it will take to reach the specified position. Not really used this myself, so not entirely sure how it works. I guess it's a matter of experimenting with the times, speed, modifiers etc until you achieve the effect you want - which I am sure will be possible

In software release 9 we added in the much requested functionality of being able to modify the chase speed live. We also made it possible to adjust any of the chase modifiers live (direction, attack, drive and speed). These live adjustments can be done for all chases running at the time or for individually selected chases. CLICK HERE Perhaps if you set the chase drive modifier to beat rather than auto, then you could quickly adjust it's 'speed' live by tapping the STEP button rather than adjusting the speed control on the front panel. If several chases were running then this action would affect all those with a beat drive making them all run at the same 'speed' 8) I think that when you first run a chase from the playback x or from a submaster, that it is perfectly reasonable to expect it to run at it's programmed values (direction, attack, drive, speed etc). These can then be modified live as required. Expecting a chase to somehow modify itself automatically to match another one running is perhaps a little too much to expect at the moment - I'm not sure if Simon has developed any 'psychic' software yet What would happen if you had say six chases all running at different speeds, and you started a new one - how would it know which one to match 8O Edit: :idea: You could always just program the two chases with the same speed to start with

I'm not sure if your specific suggestion concerning the external keyboard has been mentioned before, but there are several related ideas in this topic CLICK HERE Frog Reference 5493 - Use the function keys F5 - F8 on external keyboard as short cuts to fade times on memories screen.

We have made several improvements over the years to chases on submasters, mainly at the request of users One of those changes was to make chases stop when the submaster fader is brought back down to zero. Normally, it would not matter which step was being output when the chase stopped as the intensity (brightness) would now be at zero. However, if your fixture does not have a dimmer channel, then I can see why this may be a problem. As Laubfrosch has suggested, if you can send us the DMX channel information for the fixture, maybe we can think of a solution

Remember that if you have several fixtures selected, the wheel LCD will only be showing the parameter values for the 'primary fixture'. The values of the parameters for the other selected values may vary depending on the wheel editing mode (absolute, relative, fan etc.) Use one of the output screens on the monitor to see if the actual output levels are changing as you move the wheel.

I have consulted with our software guru and his response was as follows: When programming or editing memories, submasters, palettes etc. the changes are saved to the nvr (non volatile RAM), then when that gets full, the full show is written to the flash memory, and the nvr is cleared. On power-up, the desk loads the show from flash and then applies the changes stored in the nvr. So it would appear if the changes to the submaster data are retrieved from the NVR, then the times are OK, but if the data is retrieved from the flash, the default times appear. Changing and saving the Desk Setup forces the desk to save the show to flash and clear the NVR. If you don't change the desk setup, the desk will only save the data to flash when the NVR gets full.

If you want to have both simple generic scenes and/or moving lights on your submasters, it is probably best to have the desk in Partial mode. Remember that HTP channels (generic/preset faders and fixture brightness parameters) are always recorded when you record channel data directly onto a submaster, but the fixture LTP parameters (colour, beamshape and position) are only recorded if the fixtures are tagged. Therefore if you only want the generic channels to be recorded onto the sub, ensure that all fixture brightnesses are at zero and all fixtures are untagged.

I think and hope that he meant saving the channel data on the preset A faders onto the submaster faders - which I have explained above If he did mean the second row of preset faders, I would have to ask WHY 8O

Channel Data (from the preset faders) as well as fixture data (for fat, leap and bull frog desks) can be saved directly onto submaster faders if required. See the Submaster section in the operating manual for further details. (See also the notes on release 9 software where you can now adjust the times on submasters recorded directly with channel data.) If you are using the Go button to run through the playback stack (playback X) there are different methods of skipping scenes: Manually select the Next scene to be output using the + key on the front panel, or if you have an external keyboard connected enter the memory number directly, then press the GO button. or if you always want to skip certain scenes you can program a jump into the memory stack - see Memories section of the manual.

There has been a lot of interest and speculation on the new "Frog 2" desk. In this new topic or 'competition' members can offer their own suggestions for the name, colour scheme and front panel design of the new desk The current working name for the new desk is "Frog 2". The final name and the colour scheme will be up to those 'arty' types down in marketing. I'm more concerned with the technical features and user interface myself Please Note - this is meant as a light-hearted exercise but it may give some ideas to our S & M department

Are you sure the times were the default SUBMASTER fade times or are they the fade times of the transferred memories, which if they haven't been modified would also be 3 seconds ? During testing yesterday I deliberately changed the submaster defaults and modified the times of the memories prior to transferring them. When the desk was powered back up, it was definitely the memory fade times that were appearing on the submasters, which previously had zero times. This is the conclusion I came to as well. If you transfer memories without time, and simply power cycle the desk, the corect times come up. However, if you modify something in the Desk Setup and save it, this I believe causes the show to be saved to flash memory. Then if you power cycle the desk, the times on the subs appear to change.

I powered up the desk this morning - the page of submasters which had memories transferred without time now have times which appear to be the times of the memories (not the submaster default times). I have tried another couple of tests this morning and it would appear that the problem lies when reloading the show from flash, and does not always appear simply by power cycling the desk. I have passed this information on to our software guy for further investigation. Frog Reference No 5489 - Times appear on submasters after restarting the desk - Bug to be investigated and fixed

Moderation - topic moved to Suggest a Feature forum.

As Graham said earlier in this topic, the new desk will not have all the planned features implemented immediately. I would imagine there will be several feature updates over a period of time, and we may well provide Beta versions of software to those registered members of the Beta test Usergroup.

I will set up a fat frog here and transfer a set of memories with time onto a page of submasters, and without time onto another page. I will power down the desk and then power it up after a period of time, and see if the problem can be reproduced. As to the overwriting of the names - did you name the submasters independently after transferring the memories ? If you re-transfer the memories onto the subs then the names will be overwritten as you are effectively overwriting the whole submaster. If you name the memories before transferring them, the name should also be transferred to the submaster.

... and before anybody asks .. we will NOT be putting Cueline on the Frog series because: 1. The frog monitor screens are simple text based screens, not graphical screens like on the Illusion. 2. The cueline is designed to be used with a mouse which the frogs do not have. 3. We are far too busy working on Frog 2 :wink:

If I figure out an easy way of doing a diagram/graph and putting it in a post, I will In the mean time here is another example which may help: Cue 1: channels 1-30 all @ 50% Cue 2: channels 1-10 @ 0%, channels 11-20 @ 50 %, channels 21-30 @ 100%. fade up = 5 seconds, fade down = 2 seconds. The desk is currently outputting cue 1 (chans 1-30 @ 50%). Cue 2 is the next cue (memory). Press the Go button. The fade times for all channels which are changing value are determined by the times of the incoming cue (ie cue 2), therefore: Channels 1-10 are going from 50% - 0% so they fade from 50 - 0 in 2 seconds. Channels 11-20 are going from 50% - 50% so they remain static @ 50%. Channels 21-30 are going from 50% - 100% so they fade from 50 - 100 in 5 seconds.

Ice - On what basis or evidence do you make this statement ? Having worked on the Frog Series of desks from it's initial specification in June 2000 to the latest software releases earlier this year, I am fully aware of the amount of work that is required to develop a series of lighting desks, in terms of hardware, electronics and software 8O From the original frog/fat frog desks we have added the leap frog, bull frog, mambo frog, frog box and frog screen to the range, as well as significant improvements and updates to the functionality that the desks provide compared to the original spec. I am not at liberty to post details on the development of the 'Frog 2' desk. I am sure Graham (NZ) will post whatever information he feels appropriate at this time, and I think he has already hinted at some of the features that the new desk is likely to have - see earlier in this topic.

sp - Your descriptions of the LED functionality are correct ...but the latest frog series and mambo frog operating manuals which were updated in March this year DO contain all the functionality which was added in Release 9 of the software - I should know as I updated and re-issued them For the latest frog manuals .. CLICK HERE or HERE or even HERE.

Now if we told you all the features, firstly we'd take all the fun and surprise out of the product launch, and secondly we'd spend all our time on the forum arguing about what's in and whats not, and never get it finished! Besides, it's more interesting to sit back and let the users discuss what they want on the desk, rather than try and steer the debate too heavily ourselves :wink:

Just to clarify I was referring to Frog II here :wink:

Agree with your comment on cue numbers Effects (movement or otherwise) may require some thinking about - it depends how the effect parameters are stored and processed internally, I guess .. one for our software guru to ponder over Loading invidual fixture parameters (eg colour wheel, gobo, iris, strobe etc) onto a fader is something we have considered