K-Nine

Hi Haytech, After further investigation, testing and discussion with our software guru (aka Simon) it appears we have discovered the source of the bug ... It appears that programming the corresponding colour or beamshape palette is affecting the movement effect data on the programmed position palette 8O For example - if position palette 7 has been programmed with a movement effect, then programming colour palette 7 or beamshape palette 7 is clearing out some of the "extended data" area of the base memory. This "extended data" is where the movement effect parameters are stored. This should only happen when you are programming a position palette. There are two possible work-arounds to avoid this problem .. 1. Use different palette numbers for your position palettes with movement effects to those used for colour and beamshape palettes (eg program colour/beam numbers 1-12 and pos palettes with movement 13+ 2. Program your colour and beam palettes first and then your position palettes.

I would also recommend reading the beginning of Chapter 4 of the manual as well as it describes the two types of memories (scenes and chases), the common data (triggers, fade times etc) and chase modifiers. If you don't have a monitor attached to the desk then the sections on LCD Display - Memories and Memories Screen Data also contain some useful information

RTFM .. Read The Frog Manual The latest issue describes all the functionality provided up to and including software version 9.0. The Notes often contain very useful hints and tips which often get overlooked Then there's the Hints and Tips Forum of which you are obviously aware as that is where this post is

Unfortunately, you can't. Explanations and reasons behind this have been given elsewhere in this forum (I'll add a link when I find it ) The only way to put a chase onto a submaster is to program a chase memory and then transfer it to the submaster. If the chase is not part of the memory stack I would recommend programming at say number 900+ so it does not interfere with the playback X. Data cannot be transferred from submasters to memories in the same way as a memory can be transferred onto a submaster.

It sounds very much like you have a mechanical or electrical problem with the control wheel itself. Please could you try putting the desk into test mode, bring up the 'Wheels' screen on the main LCD and then watch the numbers carefully and roll the wheel through one complete revolution in both directions.

Now this may seem a rather obvious question, but you have actually patched the fixtures to DMX addresses ... haven't you ?

Does the middle control wheel NOT work for all attributes (brightness, colour, beamshape and position) or just for a particular fixture type and wheel group ?

Just tried my Phantom Frog again and even in the DMX Outputs window the parameter levels appear to update correctly in the wheel LCD, Main LCD and monitor window .... curiouser and curiouser :?

I've just had another look here, and the values in the outputs window on both the LCD on the front panel and the monitor seem to be updating and match the wheel LCD on the front panel .... how odd :?

Which version of Phantom Frog are you using ? I have just tried it here on my PC and the Outputs window seems to be updating the fixture parameter values OK as you adjust them with the wheels, or do you mean via other methods ?

As mentioned elsewhere in these forums (I'll add a link when I find the relevant topic) .. the submaster fader only controls the HTP data which is programmed on to it. The HTP data is comprised of the generic/dimmer channels, which are programmed from the preset faders and fixture brightness parameters. Fixture LTP parameters (colour, beam and position) are triggered when the submaster fader reaches the LTP trigger point. The LTP parameters will either snap to their programmed values or fade in the LTP fade time depending on which actions are set for each attribute. If the minimac has a shutter this will almost certainly be defined as a beamshape parameter and therefore will be processed LTP as described above. However, if you edit the fixture profile for the Minimac using the Fixture Type Editor - you can move the shutter into Brightness and then its output value will be controlled HTP by the position of the submaster fader. With regards to your second question - this is a feature known as page overlay and it works correctly according to the specification and design - see manual page 5-10 for further details.

Not yet - I will try and investigate as soon as I have the time - obviously better if I can try and reproduce the fault in our demo room with real fixtures

Yes, you are right - this has been mentioned before and has been logged in the database for review Frog Reference 5488 - Naming of Submaster Pages - to be reviewed. As you are probably aware, there are numerous outstanding requests and suggestions for feature updates and improvements. It is up to our sales and management team to determine what new or modified features are implemented in the Frog range, and when it is most effective from a business point of view to do so. For further discussion on this topic CLICK HERE

What's a vacation ? I haven't even started using this years holidays yet 8O

Not for me - I'm still here monitoring and answering posts

Erm, still a little confused here Haytech. Can I just clarify what you did, so I can try it here and see if I can reproduce the problem... Program a static position palette, say P1. Select fixtures and output position palette P1. Wheel LCD shows 'P1' for all the position parameters, including the six movement effect parameters. Adjust all the position parameters, including all the movement effect parameters such that the fixtures now have a movement effect (eg circle). Save fixture position data as a new position palette, say P6. When you output position palette P6 later, it appears static, ie it has lost it's movement effect ? Not quite sure where the last paragraph about colour/beam palettes comes into this :?

For further discussion on this subject: CLICK HERE A more 'flexible' way of defining and using faders is being considered for the Frog 2

Loading the show from floppy disk will probably display the same problem as it is very similar to loading the show from flash - see earlier posts. This problem will be investigated. I hope you meant 3 seconds for the fade times, not 3 minutes as that would really be annoying 8O Note - This problem only appears to affect the submasters with transferred memories. The times on submasters which have been recorded directly with channel/fixture data appear to reload correctly.

Are any of the manual control levels for any of the channels non-zero ?

When you are in full mode all the generic/dimmer channels and all fixture parameters are recorded at their current output values, when you program a memory or submaster. Therefore whenever you output a scene memory or a chase memory via the playback X (memory stack) or using a submaster, all the channels and fixtures will be affected. Dimmer channels and fixture brightness parameters will be mixed in on a HTP basis, and all the colour, beamshape and position parameters will work LTP and snap or fade to their programmed levels. If you want your submasters to only affect certain fixtures that you have specifically programmed, you need to put the desk in partial mode first. Then, when programming memories or submasters, you need to 'tag' the fixtures you want recorded. You can also choose to just record colour, or beamshape or position parameters if required. Note - that Brightness is ALWAYS recorded, so if you don't want a particular fixture to appear in a scene or submaster, ensure that it's brightness is set to zero. See the operating manual pages 4-4 to 4-11 and 5-1 to 5-9 for further information on programming memories and submasters.

I've often come across similar problems when trying to interpret peoples questions or problems about the desks Cues/memories/scenes, cue stacks/cue lists/memory stacks, effects/chases/sequences etc... I'll try and provide the basics of Tracking here. If you need any further info or examples, please let me know. Memory Data in Partial Mode In Partial Mode (also known as Tracking Mode) the desk works by only recording the ‘tagged’ dimmer channel and fixture parameter data (as opposed to Full Mode where every dimmer channel and fixture parameter is recorded into the memory). Changing a dimmer channel or fixture parameter level will automatically tag the channel or parameter. Dimmer channels and fixture parameters can also be tagged manually, if required. This results in the feature that when you edit a memory, any changes made to the dimmer channel and fixture parameter data are reflected forwards (or tracked) through subsequent memories, until a memory is encountered where such dimmer channels and fixture parameters are programmed at a different level. The desk also provides track backwards, track forwards and backwards and Cue Only options when editing memories. This can save a lot of time when plotting and modifying a show as you don't need to change the dimmer or fixture parameter levels in several memories. Programming Memories The way that the Illusion 500 desk provides the tracking facility is based on the systematic programming of the memories as follows: Before programming any memories set the Operating Mode to Partial in Desk Setup. The memories should be programmed in ascending numerical order. When programming a memory, each dimmer channel and fixture parameter to be recorded must be tagged. Untagged dimmer channels and fixture parameters will track from previous memories. Editing Memories – Tracking Options When editing a programmed memory, the desk software will monitor the dimmer channels and fixture parameters which have been changed. When the user saves the data back into the same memory, he will be given the following tracking options as to what happens to the changed data as follows: · Track Forwards · Track Backwards · Track Forwards and Backwards · Cue Only.

The current situation is that you need to keep any images or photos on your own webspace and use the tags or hyperlinks in the posts. I have been informed that there is no easy way to allow multiple users access to upload images to the server and this would raise various security and control issues.

Nice one, sp. I'd forgotten about that one

And they are just some of the 'polite' words I've heard

Nice one sp, but what has he got in his mouth :?: