ice

Yeah I don't really know how, but this should be done diferently. For instance the software could check if fixture data was deleted (cleared or untagges), and if not: just alter the pallet and leave the rest alone. I guess that would save some time right? Now you've mentioned that, I don't really know if I programmed everything or just some fixtures in the pallets. Is there any way to find out which fixture were programmed? If I select all (untagged) fixtures, and bring up a pallet, will only the fixutures affected be tagged again?

If data was removed from the pallet that was caused by the user pressing "clear" I think? I never do that If it's nicely referenced, updating it would only cause an update of the pallet, so searching isn't necessary at all I think?

If I get this right the console works like this: - you program a pallet - you program that pallet into a memory, the desk knows that and programs a reference to that pallet, as well as the pallet values. - you re-program that same pallet - the desk starts searching all items for a reference to that pallet and reprograms all items were that reference was found - you end up waiting. There is a really simple way of avoiding this using OOP; - program a pallet; the desk makes an instance of a "position" class containing all options at memory address X - program a memory; the position pallet gets programmed so it contains only a reference to the same instance of "position" (so it points to memory X) - reprogramming the pallet will update (or overwrite) the instance @ X and therefore update data in all memories. - at playback time the console gets the references position data (X) and therefore gets updated values. I hope this makes sense? I'm afraid if you didn't program like this a software update wouldn't be possible because that's gonna take loads of work. Maybe you could give us a little explanation of the coding style that was used? Like a sequence diagram or something... Oh; killing that link is no option by the way, it's the only way available to keep your programming clean and simple. Otherwise I should reprogram all memories, and that takes a lot more time than waiting for the buffer to clean out!

Any idea on a way to prevent this from happening? Maybe somekind of clever programming style?

I second that! Be carefull with those fireworks, your hands are special things in this industry

Pressing the submaster button means you're editing all current submasters running, pressing the memories button means you're editing the current memory. Pressing them both at the same time; editing both at the same time! I'm not 100% sure about this, but it seems to make sence somehow.

The only thing you change by doing that is the home value... I think the problem is all fixtures go on when you slide the wheel upwards, except this kind of fixture, and I can sure imagine that's annoying. Nothing you can do about that though... to bad; time to buy/rent newer fixtures

You can hold the SX, lower the rest of your faders and release it.. takes only a second I guess.

That might be the problem... to avoid a lot of work I programmed position pallets, and used those in the scenes/chases. So there's about 15 pallets used in over 50 scenes and chases... Changing one pallet could indeed alter some more scenes and chase-steps, therefore filling the RAM and the desk would flush it... So if I get where you're going there's really nothing I can do to prevent this? It really sucks because actions which would normally take about 10 minutes now take a good half hour because of all the flushing.

Ah eeeh, good question. I think I meant the recovery mode, but that of course has rather little to do with it. Problems remains though

I'm working on a somewhat standard showfile for our rig. I've programmed about 200kb of data into my show, everything works fine. The issue is that when I re-program for instance a position pallet, the console starts saving the show again. That fine, but it takes about a minute or so, and it happens every 2 or 3 times I alter something. No need to tell you that's rather annoying. Is there any way to prevent this? I've already disabled the autosave, but that doesn't seem to help a bit.

I get your point, but once again; when you've got some subs with heavy movement, strobes etc; the same effect can be made by raising the sub. I don't know any lighting desk which has such a function, so that makes one wonder how they've managed al those years without it!? Just spend some more time behind the console, and pre-program your 20 submaster pages in an efficient way. I understand a mambo has SX buttons to which you can your fixtures, so use those wisely and I'm pretty certain I can create the same effect you can without the use of such a function (no offence...!)

I don't really get the use of these things... just take some time to pre-program your show and everything can be done with just one great blue button. There are other things I find more important to be fixed than such a feature.

You're right, but MA has got an offline visualising tool too; that's another big difference. I'm quite certain these softwarepackages like HogPC and grandMA etc. output a standard Ethernet signal. Just reading the stream and outputting that to a dongle does te trick; my Enttec OpenUSB2DMX dongle has some software which is capable of reading Ethernet streams. So you've got an offline console which outputs real signal, a visualiser to program offline and everything for free. It's just a point I made to prove that Zero should cut back on these things because they're afraid they'll lose customers on it. There are already some good examples of offline software which works great and really expands the possibilities you've got. I don't think they're gonna take the Phantom to that kind of level, but maybe the software on F2 has these kinds of capabilities?

I've tried Capture, and am a little disapointed by the looks of the software. WYSIWYG costs a lot more, but you're definitely getting a lot more! If you want to buy one package and be happy with it for the next few years: go with WYSIWYG. The DMX-in of Capture works great with the Frog, too bad I've only got the demo version so it quits after 90 mins, and there's no way so save any of your work. The dongles all work with your DMX signal, so as long as your desk is outputting that you can connect anything you'd wnat (even another PC). What you need is at least WYSIWYG Perform 500 (about 3k euro), that comes with a dongle. It would be an option to rewrite Phantom Frog so it's able to communicate with WYSIWYG over Ethernet. You mention the possibility of losing customers to an offline console which outputs DMX. I don't think that's going to happen, cause when you'd want to work like that, you can always download the Avolites Pearl / Hog / GrandMA software. That all works and is way better than Phantom Frog; so don't worry there! I'm going to buy the Perform edition of WYSIWYG next year, so I'll give u guys some more info then, if you want it.

It's an investment, but you're never going to leave home without it And it saves a sh*tload of time!

That's what they call a Focus-hand http://www.elclighting.com/elc1.html

Now you've mentioned that, I did clean the console a few months ago, so maybe the lacquer doesn't respong well to that, that could be the cause.... Since the desk is a few years old and this only happened the last few weeks. Our Fat Frog is quite new, but doesn't have these problems.. didn't clean it for that matter.

Sure: As you can see it's barely readable... and this picture was taken with daylight, so you can imagine what it's like in dark places I like to call theatres I thought it only appeared on the Wheel LCD, but as I just saw it's happening with the main LCD too

Nope that's not going to help... it's the top layer of that LCD that makes it clear and transparant, if that weares off the LCD becomes so unclear that it's impossible to see thru it, even at high display intensity

More of a hardware thingy... the LCD display on our desk, just above the scrollwheels is becoming unclear. It's like the top coating is wearing off (probably by my sweaty hands combined with beer 8)). Until now it's just a small corner, but that small corner is expanding slowly, and I'm afraid I'll won't be able to see anything soon. Is there any solution for this problem?

Im currently testing the Enttec DMX dongle for offline programming purposes... I'll post my experiences here.

Is there yet an update on the visualising issue? I was wondering how things are going with WYSIWYG and those kind of programs, any chance of a link between Z88 products and Cast Lighting?

That's my point. If you program some colour chases, beamshape chases and conventional things; always use the same fader for the colour chases. You'll probably don't use those at the same time (at least I don't) so you can easily switch from page to page.

Suppose you're at page 3 and open sub 5, now you go to page 15 and open sub 8 and sub 5. Okay you want to lose the effect you started on 5 before that... uhhh damn, where did I put that? You'd have to scroll through all the pages to find the sub you'd want to kill, and by lowering the fader you lose control over the setting in page 15, creating a same kind of problem again. I see a lot of contras, and almost no in-favours. You've got 10 submaster faders and one playback X. That means you can start 11 things at the same time. If that's not enough, or you're running into problems with that; I think you should consider another way of programming.