Kirkup_xp

There are several issues here. Firstly, is the use of the Home button the correct one. IMHO, as its become an established convention, yes, the Home button presently should set every attribute to its default, the intensity to 100%, and tag everything. However, what we really need is a 'release' function. What this does is sets everything to its home value, but the intensity to 0%. It also untags everything, as you are finished with the fixture. My suggested command for this was the WHEELGROUP+HOME combination. If people arent happy about this setting the fixture to 0%, BRIGHTNESS+HOME is only a small finger movement away and that'll home (and tag, when Trackingis implemented) the brightness. Thats my thoughts, anyway.

As far as I know, these sort of fixtures are only supported by the very latest desks. The fact is that up until now 1 dimmer per fixture has been an accepted convention and has been built into the architecture of most,if not all, desks. To re-write them to cope with multiple intensities would mess around not only the the internal workings but also the user interfaces of most desks. Even the accepted theatrical convention of <chan> @ <level> doesn't allow for multiple intensities. This new technology requires a rethink on the philosophy of a lighting desk and is not a simple change to implement. With regard LED fixtures, most desks are coping with the multiple HTP channels problem by approaching it from a different avenue. Instead of giving Red, Green and Blue their own HTP channel, you create a 'virtual' HTP channel, which scales each of the RGB parameters. This Virtual Dimmer then allows you to control the overall brightness of the fixture on an HTP basis, whilst maintaining the colour mixing abilities. This can be seen in the Frog2 at the moment.

Select a group of fixtures and record them as a group. Then enter GROUP n RECORD <UDF flash button>. That fader now acts as an intensity fader for the group. As the intensity fader affects the program window, pressing CLEAR will send the channels to 0.

Theoretically, the limit of one HTP channel per fixture is only in software. However, by allowing the number of HTP channels to increase, you increase the processing power required by the desk. At present, the maximum number of HTP nodes within the desk is 120 (96 generics and 24 fixtures, on a bullfrog). If we were to allow you 4 channels of HTP in each fixture type, this would increase to 384 (96 fixtures on a Mambo) - more than trippling the HTP processing required. HTP processing is one of the most complex tasks which the processor has to deal with - the level output can come from one of many sources and at any given time, any of those sources can change. The desk hardware was never built to support that level of processing and as such would probably not cope with the task. The level of software engineering which has occured on the Frog range is massive, and to go back and re-code it all to enable one or two very new fixtures to be supported would not be a sensible use of R&D time. Do you know of any desks which allow multiple HTP channels on a single fixture?

I've looked at the DMX profile in a bit more detail and i'm afraid there is no way that you will be able to control the CS2/4 on the Frogs using a 'normal' fixture type. The only way we can get this to work is to give you LTP (Latest Takes Precidence) control over the intensity channels, instead of HTP. This will have several problems, including the fact that if you record any data to a submaster, the data will be triggered at the trigger level, rather than fading nicely. In addition, you won't be able to pull the intensity down by pulling the submaster back down. Unfortunately, this is due to the obscure nature of this fixture. In addition, the fixture will not work with the built in effects engine in the Frogs... this effects system relies on there being only one Pan parameter. Let me know if you'd like me to construct this fixture type for you. I'm sorry there's not an easier way for this fixture to work, but due to the obscure nature of this fixture, I doubt you'd find many desks able to cope with it. Peter

The CS-4 is a relatively complex fixture to program on a Frog, due to the fact that it has 4 intensity parameters. I can create you a fixture personality for them, however it will be somewhat of a 'botch'. Each fixture on the Frog can only support one HTP intensity channel. You can either have the other channels as LTP ones (which will end up as part of the Beamshape, Colour or Position groups) or you could patch them as additional fixture types, with a dimmer and a Pan parameter. Let me know which you would prefer and I'll create the necessary fixture file. At present I don't see including one or the other of these fixture files with the library to be a useful activity - both types can lead to confusion, and neither would provide a simple single-fixture for you to control. Edit: Just checked the DMX profile and the CS2/4 may also cause some problems when patching onto the Frog desks, due to the fact that the dimmer and pan parameters of each 'head' are embedded within the single group of 20 channels. When you patch a fixture to the Frogs, it reserves a group of channels as defined in the library. If you attempted to patch a CS4 at DMX 100, you would not be able to assign the required intensity and pan channels for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th heads to their appropriate DMX addresses. You may have some problems using this fixture with the Frog desks. I'll look at the fixture profile tomorrow for you in more detail and post here what I think will be the best solution. It would be useful for me if you could post how many of these fixtures you intend using, and how many other fixtures will be patched to the Leap Frog. Whatever solution we end up with, you're likely to need to patch more than one fixture per CS4.

I'd be tempted to go down the arcline route then. Failing that, what about ropelight?

Arcline? Festoon? What sort of music? Any images of the plan?

To tag all parameters of fixtures when programming, hold down WHEEL GROUP and press PROGRAM. You will require software version 10 in order to selectively tag attributes down to single attribute level.

Furthur to my initial ideas, if you needed to use 'palettes' for colours, what about setting your submasters up as various colours. Because you're treating your RGB attributes as HTP mixes, they'll be stored when you record the memories, so you'll be able to re-use the colours from the subs.

If you really need to use the RGB channels as dimming, you're going to have to use up 3 generic channels per fixture. You could create a user fixture type for the additional three channels (Strobe+Macros), and patch these as fixtures. Or you could buy a Frog2, which allows you to create a 'virtual' dimming channel on your LED fixtures

With generics: Plot a multi-step chase, with each light on in an individual state. Set the drive to crossfade (^) and play with the speed until you get the required speed. You might also want to set the Shots to 1. With movers: Plot a two step chase (or a crossfade). In step 1, the movers are in a diagonal line one way ... in the next, they're in a diagonal line the other way /. You can set them into a diagonal line by using the fan-middle function with the Tilt (or Pan, depending on the rigging of your fixtures). Make sure you select the fixtures in the correct order. HTH

At the moment, the Frog range can only support one HTP channel per fixture. If you need the attributes to be affected by the masters, you're going to have to seperate each attribute into a different fixture (or perhaps use any spare generic faders you may have). With the Frog2, these sort of LED fixtures can be defined with a virtual dimmer, eliminating the problem of multiple HTP channels. Hope this helps. Peter

What you are referrring to as power banks is infact what most people would call the dimmers. On the front of the dimmers will be a control panel or set of wheels which will allow you to set the Start Address (sometimes just called the address) of the dimmers. This is the first channel in the DMX signal which the dimmers will respond to. Set this, using the wheels or menu, to 1. Now, assuming no-ones been playing silly b*ggers with your Fat Frog, you should be able to control the lights connected to the dimmer by using the faders at the top left of the Fat Frog. Check that the Grand Master is set to 10 (full) and that the A-master is also at full. If that works, let us know. Everything from then on is explained rather nicely in the Fat Frog user manual, which can be found here.

Attached, updated fixture profile for the elation light mentioned above. This has also been updated in the main fixture library.

As others have said, running moving lights off of dimmers is a very bad idea. I'd suggest you run a hot power feed from somewhere to the movers. A simple 13A feed from a socket in the wall to the grid will do. Seriously, don't run movers from dimmers - its bad for them, and not recommended by the manufacturers. It can result in damage to both the movers and the dimmers.

I've created a fixture file for the SP880 and include it with this post. It will also be added to the next release of the fixture library.

Hi Paul If you can let us know the DMX channel allocations, we can put together a fixture file for you. If you know of a website with the user manuals for the fixtures, that would help. Peter

You could do this using an N-shot chase. Step 1 - all fixtures at 'home' position Step 2 - first fixture beginning wave Step 3 - next fixture joins in wave, first fixture further on in the wave Step4....n Step n - Last fixture finishes wave Set the chase to run once (Shots: 1) and modify the speed and attack as required. Transfer this memory to a submaster, and whenever you raise the submaster, the wave will happen

See here Mode 1 and 3 enable 16-bit control of most attributes. Modes 3 and 4 enable Pan and Tilt macros. Therefore if you don't want Pan and Tilt Macros, but do want 16-bit control, you want Mode 1.

Full mode and tracking are opposites. You cannot have both simultaneously. Yes, see here and here. Just to clarify exactly what tracking is and does. Take a look at the following example: *Sorry for the dodgy images* Key: 100% 0% Tracking Traditional Theatre Stack Cue One: Cue Two: Cue Three: All of the data is programmed between each cue. If you go and adjust something in Cue Two, it updates only in Cue Two. If I wanted the first light off in all three cues, i'd have to go and edit three cues. Tracking Theatre Stack Cue One: Cue Two: Cue Three: If you go and edit the first channel in Cue Two, it will filter through to Cue Three. Depending on the implementation of tracking, there may also be an option to 'track backwards', in which case, altering the first lightin Cue Two will also edit it in Cues One and Three. In the above example, both stacks would output the same data. Put simply, a tracking cue only stores the changes. This has its advantages and disadvantages - an advantage is that if you want to change something throughout a whole scene, you only need to reprogram it once. A disadvantage is the fact that things can get messy if you start messing around within the cue stack - you can accidentally program lights at the 'wrong' level as you may not notice that the level has tracked from a previous cue. The solution to this is to create 'block' cues, which hard program all levels. Then, if cues previous to the one you're working on are altered, the changes will only ever get as far as the block cue. Block cues are best used around the start of scenes, or on big lighting changes. A rough equivilant of a block cue in version 10 of the software is holding down WHEEL GROUP and pressing PROGRAM. This forces all parameters of all fixtures to programmed. I would use these cues for the first cue in the show, any 'blackouts' and the cues after blackouts.

I've uploaded a fixture file for the Super Strobe, here. Try controlling the strobes with this, and let us know if the problem goes away. Peter

Interesting rig. I think the key to plotting these fixtures on the Mambo will be Groups - set your fixtures up in the groups as required, then you can replay palettes etc over the top of the groups. Remember you can create palettes for each colour which encompass all the fixture types - for example, 'Red', irrelevant of the fixture type. In this way, even with a large number of fixtures such as this, you should have pleanty of palettes. Where are the chromabanks on your rig? It might be worth thinking about how you want to control them - do you need RGB per pixel, or can you cope with RGB on the whole batten? Jumping down to one of the lower-channel modes will speed up both your plotting and make the channel count significantly lower. I think if I was presented with this show, i'd think hard about exactly what was going to be needed at any one time - presuming you'll need the strobes and blinders on instant access (SX or Subs), but what about all the other elements. By the time you do the show, you should be able to program down to parameter level, which will help immensely when creating strobes, rotating gobos, prism, and even with the chroma banks. Good luck! As K9 says, maybe a Frog2 would be a good desk for this show - the multiple playbacks would give you flexibility to run several stacks for colour, beam, position, etc. Keep us up to date with developments. Peter

I would definitely say its worth treating this device as a fixture. The Latest Takes Precidence mixing will mean that when you pull up the relevant fader (or run the memory), the device will do what you expect. What is the manufacturer and product name of the tubes? I can take a look at the product and add it to our library. If it does Red Green Blue mixing and other items on the same channels, you'll have to decide which names you want for the channels, as the library only allows for one name per parameter. With regard the speed parameter, you can always grab the 'speed' channel and set the speed on the fixture after it is running.

Hi Swoosh and welcome to the new Support forums :-) The latest fixture library is release 15, which can be found here. The fixture editing tools haven't been updated for a while, but they work fine with Release 15. Release 15 contains over 1100 fixtures, including the Oby3, Oby5 and Mac 250 Entour. If you have any furthur questions about the library, feel free to ask. A complete list of supported fixtures is included with the library download. Peter