kgallen

Thanks, Keith. I'm going to try it on Win8 at home now. Risky?!

Hi Ian (long time no-see!). Interesting - I wasn't aware of that feature! Anyway, it suggested running under XP-SP2 settings. The FE started, Win7 survived, but the FE is completely locked itself now (can't even promote the window to the front!). Will try and get rid of it and try another setting (although I was forced to save the settings for this program which seems a little premature for maybe intermittant issues...) Cheers, Kevin Hmm, same behaviour with XP-SP3 compatibility. It seems what happens, is the FE starts, the dialog comes up asking whether you want to open an existing fixture or start a new one, but then closes itself straight away. Then the FE itself is locked. Just started the FE 5 times from the start menu (as I was before the OP) and no problems (as in Win7 doesn't crash and the FE appears usable). But I'm not sure now if it's running with some compatibility settings Win7 has burried under the hood. Jon - if you could comment if Win7 is supported then I'll put it down to bad luck, or try and note symptoms if the issue reoccurs. Thanks, Kevin

On 2 out of 3 invokations of the Fixture Editor 2.6.0.0 on my Win7 laptop, the splash graphic appears then the laptop has been completely locked up, requiring a 5-second power button to reset the machine. Is 2.6.0.0. compatible with Win7? Thanks, Kevin

Hi jaylees. Just to elaborate on what Keith says, you will need to drive the remote input from something like an open-collector transistor, not a push-pull output stage. I don't know what the Pi has for GPIO and whether this can be configured push-pull or open-collector/open-drain. Whatever the stage, it would need to be 12V tolerant and you will end up needing to common the 0V of the Fat Frog with the 0V of the Pi. Given that both pieces of kit are powered from switch mode supplies and their grounds could be floating or at different potentials I'm not sure a direct connection would be the best idea. Maybe better to use an opto isolator like 6N139 to isolate the Fat Frog from the Pi (which is what I did with my wireless remote control, details of which used to be on this forum but have since disappeared over the various migrations...). Here is some very useful information I got from Paul way back that elaborates on the input stage so you can come up with a reliable interface circuit between the Pi and remote inputs: "The remote inputs on the Frog series have a 10K pull-up to +12V, then a 10K series resistor and some clamping diodes, before being fed to a 4051 mux and on to a micro A/D pin. The software simply looks for a voltage < 2.5V at the A/D pin to determine a remote switch closure. A simple open-collector NPN transistor will be fine to trigger a remote input. The maximum collector current will only be 1mA or so, and maximum Vce is 12V, so really any old transistors you have lying around will do. You might want to put a current limiting resistor in your circuit too, to protect your transistors a bit in case someone plugs your remote thing in to a standard analogue control connector which may have a low impedance +10V supply on the pins. 100ohms or so should do, this will limit the maximum collector current through the transistors in case of a fault, and won't affect the voltage read by the Frog significantly in normal use. " Hope that helps. Kevin

Flat battery? Contact Keith at Zero88 who can help identify if this is the case and how to replace the internal memory backup battery.

Hi Matt, This sounds to me like the electronics in the "control box" have failed - it would seem the control circuit is not switching the mains supply properly any more. Maybe Keith can suggest some falure modes since this "control box" appears to be a dimmer circuit. You can rule out a problem with the Frog, by repatching the channels used to control your house lights to a different set of faders. If with a different set of faders you still see the problem then I would suspect the "control box". If the problem goes away then maybe there is an issue with the faders you were originally using. If you need help repatching the channels, either see the manual (downloadable from this website) or ask again. Good luck, Kevin

Hi, You need to edit the fixture definition (using the Windows Fixture Editor utility) to modify the HOME parameters for the fixture types you are using (then reload them into the desk from a floppy). http://support.zero88.com/main/en/download/13 http://support.zero88.com/main/en/download/302 Regards, Kevin

I've just had a play with the desk (s/w v10.12) and you don't need to program the memories. Just set the fixture dimmer at 100%, select Submasters screen, select the required submaster and click Program. The Fixtures library already contains a single dimmer fixture under <CONVENTIONALS> DIMMER, so this can be used to assign to fixtures the extra number of generic channels required.

As an addendum to my posting, users may wish to set the Fat Frog into "Full" mode (Desk Setup->Program Mode) rather than "Partial" mode so that the console does not do tracking with the extra generics (if you don't know what tracking is then definately set the desk to "Full" mode!). Users experienced enough to use Partial mode and tracking or those with movers in their rig can make up their own mind which setting to use!

This is well after the event for Ian, but I thought I'd have a go at working this through in case anyone else has this issue. I suspect this topic has already been covered somewhere else on the forum so I may be regurgitating existing ideas. So assuming Ian just wants more channels of conventional dimmers, he could get up to 12 more channels on a Fat Frog by creating a dimmer-only "moving" fixture. In the standard fixture list there is a Lamp+Scroller, but you could create a new fixture using the off-line Fixture Editor that just has a dimmer. Using the 10.10 Off-line editor for Fat Frog I was able to allocate the standard Lamp+Scroller to two fixtures and with the DMX patch, allocate Ch49 and Ch50 to the "lamp" section of the fixture (I didn't need to allocate a channel to the scroller). Since the dimmer part of a fixture uses HTP rather than LTP then the submaster should be able to control the brightness. It will be necessary to program a memory stack location beyond the end of the show's cue stack (maybe add a Jump to Q1 at the end of your show) for each of the fixtures, one at a time, with dimmer at full (select the fixture so the yellow LED is on then first finger wheel to dimmer 100%). Then the submaster will need to point to that memory entry with "Transfer No Time". When programming the memory make sure the Ch49 lamp is the only one that's on so that's all the memory contains, and after programming, wheel the fixture dimmer back down to zero otherwise that channel will remain at 100%. The Outputs screen is useful to see this. I tried this using the off-line editor with a cue "onstage" and the submaster had the desired control over the fixture. When building a show cue stack the submaster will have control of the channel just as if it was a Preset A/B fader and can be programmed into the show. I tried this with a show loaded and programmed the Ch49 into the cue using the submaster and it played back as desired, fading in and out with the rest of the cue. This can be seen on the Outputs screen under the Fixture Brightness Outputs banner. So you've got 48+12=60 generic channels to play with. Probably cleaner to use the Fixture editor to create a "Lamp" fixture type with just a dimmer attribute. Maybe Peter will do that for us for the next Fixture release If Ian's LED lamp was RGB then there is a fixture type specifically for these luminaires and I believe "virtual brightness" concept is supported on the Fat Frog to handle these RGB LED units.

JMH, The FatFrog does not have a macro function. The macro function is only avaialable on the newer desks - Frog2, ORB, maybe the new LeapFrog. The fixture editor is common to all of the Zero88 desks supporting moving lights, but some of the attributes and functions (like macro) only relate to the newer/higher spec desks. The fixture file written out for the FatFrog excludes the data items that desk can't use. Regards, Kevin

Hi Morten, I'm really guessing now because I don't know the insides of this desk, but from posts #3 and #4 above, I suspect the rotary switch will be available off the shelf from an electronics supplier, and may be something like this: http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Switches/Rotary-Switches/PCB-Mounting-rotary-switches/30305/kw/79-0205? Hopefully Keith or Paul will pick up your post next week and confirm a suitable part... if not, have a look yourself and compare it to my suggestion. Good luck. Regards, Kevin

Hi Si (Welcome to the Forum!), Your question is slightly confusing as the Betapack 2s are already portable units! I would have thought you just need to install them into a wheeled 19" rack and you're away! (For example http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/32066-samson-srk-8-universal-rack-stands.html) I suspect your biggest issue is having a suitable 32A or 63A outlet at the location where you take the rack to - you could run a Betapack from a single 13A socket but that would severely limit the amount of lighting your could attach (3000W total, say 500W per channel). If the Betapacks don't already have a cable tail and plug fitted then you will need to get some advice from someone competent/qualified with electrical installations. For example you might want 2 metres of 6mm2 TRS cable and a 32A IEC plug (single phase) wiring into the Betapack supply inlet (behind the back cover). This will all depend on what electrical outlets are available where you want to use the dimmers. Please ask again with some more specific ideas/requirements and we'll try to flesh out a bit more what you might need. Ultimately you'll need to find someone competent to do the electrical work. Regards, Kevin

Fuses: 1/4" x 1 1/4" (6.35mmx32mm) 10A quick blow HRC fuse e.g. SIBA 70-065-63 10A Farnell: 117-5122 RS: 413-248 CPC: I could not find a suitable part (Dec 2009). The appropriate SIBA range is not stocked. FF01781 was the closest I could find but has an inadeqate breaking capacity. Betapack 1 UK 15A replacement front panel sockets: Stage Electrics order code 658-4621 (£3.91+VAT ea. at Jan 2010) According to Keith, this socket is also used on early BP2's. Later BP2 and BP3 use a Zero88 custom-made socket - contact Paul/Keith. Also for Betapack: Triac BTA40-600B is Farnell code 980-1715 (£6.39+VAT ea. at Jan 2010) - Fuse-protected Betapacks can use BTA25-600B which you might find slightly cheaper at some suppliers (e.g. CPC SC07588 £4.84+VAT). BTA40 must be used for MCB-protected Betapacks. Triac board opto-coupler MOC3052-M (6-pin DIP-W) is Farnell code 146-7848 (£1.18+VAT ea. at Jan 2010). (This part is a suitable replacement for the obsolete MOC3021 used on early BP1's). Betapack 1 fuseholder: RS 197-9519, Farnell 121-4783 (cap), 121-4782 (spade rather than solder terminals)

Hi Matt, To source a 2nd hand dimmer that will accept analogue control and/or DMX depending on your Level Plus as per Keith's response, you might want to look here: http://www.usedlighting.co.uk/category/1/11/13 If your Level 12 Plus is analogue (it will have two 8-pin sockets on the back) then you should look for a Zero88 Betapack1 or Betapack2. You could also look at the Strand Act dimmers but you might want to query the seller that they can take a +10 volt control voltage (Strand used to use -10 volt signalling). As per the mains supply for your new dimmer, I (like Keith) suggest you take some advice from a genuinely qualified electrician for how to reconfigure your supply to handle two dimmers. In principle it looks like you have a 63 amp supply and in an amateur context this could probably be reconfigured to two 32 amp supplies for your two dimmers - you should get a proper electrician to do this for you (maybe about £100). You might like to spend a few minutes working out how many and of what type of lighting instruments you use, since by splitting the available supply to two dimmers you may need to restrict how many lights you plug into each dimmer - although the total number of lights can be the same as you use now and I suspect as you only currently have 6 channels of dimming, you could probably increase your lighting stock further. Hope this helps; post/PM/email me if I can help any more (even if I am a month late responding to your original post!) Regards, Kevin

Hi Peter, Interesting. You were right (obviously!); DMX Allocate was set to 3. I've corrected this and will try in the desk the next time I setup. Thanks, Kevin Edit: This fixed the problem. Thanks, Peter.

Hi, I have been using the v2.0.0.1 Fixture Editor. In this case, just to develop a simple fixture description for a 3-channel DMX Relay for a FatFrog v10.9.1. (The relay has duty cycle controlled by the parameter value rather than just on/off). I originally developed my fixture for a 3 relay (=3 channel) "fixture", by defining each relay as a colour attribute, hence 3 colour parameters for 3 relays at consecutive DMX addresses. I loaded this into my FatFrog and all was fine. I assigned the fixture from the ift on the floppy and used auto assign to give me DMX addresses 49,50,51 for the fixture. I then decided that it would be better to have the relays assigned one-by-one as single channel fixtures so I could have individual tag control as what the relays control are independent rather than linked as would be pan/tilt/colour on a mover. So I edited my fixture file by deleting two parameters to have a single relay as one colour parameter (I also did one having the single parameter as the brightness parameter with the same problem as follows). The fixture had a different name and was saved as a different file on the floppy. When I loaded this into the desk and assigned fixtures, even though the Fixture Editor says there is only one parameter, the DMX address assignment still wants to allocate 3 addresses for one single-parameter fixture (so it wanted to assign a total of 9 addresses for my 3 relays instead of 3 addresses as one for each of 3 assigned fixtures). So it appears the desk did not update the number of required parameters (to 1 was 3) for the fixture even though it had changed from 3 down to 1. I presume the fixture definition on disk is correct as the Fixture Editor says there is only one parameter (at the point it was saved to floppy). I created a new fixture from scratch on the Fixture Editor (instead of editing my 3 parameter fixture definition down to 1 parameter) and this worked as expected - only requiring one DMX address - when I assigned fixtures and DMX addresses. This appears to be a bug in either the fixture definition import from floppy on the FatFrog or in the file contents written out from the Fixture Editor on the PC. Tonight I'll read the floppy file back into the Fixture Editor to exclude the latter! I was creating a fixture definition for one of these in case you're interested: http://www.dmxprojects.com/projects_dmx_relay.html Regards, Kevin

Ted, You may be better off setting the address on the lighting fixtures to somewhere above A048, say A100 and A109. This is because the conventional fixtures will probably occupy addresses 1 to 48. When you go into Super User to patch the moving lights, they will be at the bottom of the list after the conventional channels, which you should see are already assign to channels 1 through 48.

This bug appears to be fixed in 10.9. Thanks guys

Hi, On a FatFrog in Full (NOT Partial) mode I am having some problems with programmed chases with generics (no movers) when played back from a normal programmed cue stack with the Go button. Using 10.8, if I do a run-time override of a chase modifier (e.g. Attack) for the currently output sequence, then sequences subsequently played (with Go) have the wrong chase modifier - wrong in that it isn't the programmed setting. This is when doing a simple run-time override rather than an F3-based select and pickup (no need, only one chase running). I have back-tracked the desk OS to 10.4 and cannot reproduce this behaviour; I can change run-time chase modifiers at will and the next chase will revert to the programmed setting as expected. I have played with this a number of times - swapping the desk OS between 10.4 and 10.8. It seems that 10.4 always behaves and with 10.8 you can induce the behaviour described above.

For the record, I have also had the external keypad numerics stop responding during a show, using 10.8.1 on a FatFrog. As above, normal behavior returns after a reboot. I don't recall this ever happening using 10.4.

Dave, I don't believe that pulling the sub down to 0 is supposed to halt the movement effects or brightness. This seems to be an enhancement in the 10.8 software release (although you don't say what version you are using). See FR 5422 in the 10.8 release notes here: http://support.zero88.com/main/en/download/282 Regards, Kevin

...but then I couldn't reproduce this behaviour... But I think I understand what is going on now: If I untag a parameter by doing Wheel Group+Wheel down then the parameter becomes untagged (this I knew). But the F1+Wheel Group seems to be toggling the fixtures *LCD* screen between the equivalent of Fixtures Output screen and Fixtures Output Tags screen, which I though were monitor-only features. The LED in the Wheel Group button lights when the LCD is showing the "tags" screen. Note during all of this, the Beamshape Palette screen was locked to the monitor (and never changed).

Fat Frog 10.4.1 I have 4 MAC500 fixtures configured on the FatFrog. With fixtures selected, holding F1 and a quick click of the Wheel Group button toggles the parameter values between --- and their current value (palette number or literal DMX value). This happens whether or not I have a palette screen locked to the monitor. Q: Is this really untagging/tagging these parameters? The yellow LEDs do not change state (if they were flashing they stay flashing, if they were steady, they stay steady). Fixtures were selected (red LEDs on). First show with movers coming up...!

From your description, it looks like the fault is affecting multiple faders. This may suggest it is an ADC reference voltage problem or a 0V problem rather than a broken fader - unless you know the desk has been used in a very dusty environment where multiple faders could be very dirty. There is a fader test mode on the desk; hold F1 whilst the desk boots, channel flash buttons then select various pages of fader test. If you can get into the test mode then that may help Keith diagnose the problem on your desk, since an ADC/0V fault will probably correlate with a group of faders based on the hardware design. Hope this can get you going on debug before Keith has a chance to help you out...