kgallen

Fat Frog certainly does support a virtual intensity channel if you've built the fixture definition with it. Make sure you've got software 10.12 on the desk. See the release notes: Jan 2018: update linky: http://support.zero88.com/Legacy-products/Legacy-Consoles/Frog-Series/975242041/Frog-Series-Overview-Software.htm

Here's a showfile. Cue 67.5 is the one in question. What I've done for this upload, is to edit the latest showfile I'm using in the theatre, on the Phantom Frog, and to edit the Q67.5 chase to snap-fade profile (in the actual show it's snap-snap because of this issue). Since I'm at home now and edited this on Phantom Frog, I haven't tested this on the real rig to ensure the effect I'm reporting exhibits on this showfile, but hopefully it would - maybe you have a DMX sniffer to use on a real Fat Frog DMX output? Thanks, Kevin ps Note also this is Q67.5 because try as I might, I couldn't edit my previous scene Q67 to make it a chase type, so Q67 got deleted and Q67.5 created instead! ETA Correction: Only Fixture 2 (an LEDJ 9Q8) is used in Q67.5. It's at brightness=34%/green=255 in both steps of the chase. It's at DMX 120. Other LED fixtures in the rig are at brightness 0% in all steps of this Q. ETA I didn't see any of the other generics flicker, but I'd say the blink was too quick for tungsten to respond, but it was obvious with the LED fixture. The generics use Betapack 1's and 2's (analogue from a Demux48) and the LEDs are fed from one output of a Chauvet DMX optical splitter and the Demux48 is fed from another output, so there is a degree of isolation between the DMX feeds to the two luminaires involved in this query. The LED DMX chain is terminated in the last of 5 daisy-chained fixtures. This picture shows a bit of an oblique shot of the scene. The generic of channel 9 is that lighting Dorothy/Tinman etc behind a gauze and the LED fixture 2 is producing the green backlight on the skeleton character on main stage to the left. The bottom of the LED fixture can just be seen as the highest green bright spot to the upper centre-left in the picture. http://www.pixelsintime.co.uk/Category/The-Wizard-of-Oz/i-zTcBpbR/0/X2/The%20Wizard%20of%20Oz-232-X2.jpg

It seemed to be at the transition point between the steps, so I think at the snap on point (i.e. after the fade down) and at the top of the fade (i.e. after the snap). Lights were in significantly different locations, so weren't side by side to compare exactly. The generics were front/cross light and the LED backlight, so could see one or the other in peripheral vision. The generic (just a pair of tungsten PAR16s) that was intended to be the only one changing was channel 9/DMX 9 and the LED fixture I definitely saw blink is up at DMX 120 (fixture 2). There were other LED fixtures in the rig at brightness 0; I didn't see these come on at all, just the one that was on blinked off. When the show is done I could probably create a showfile. Actually I could send the one for the show as now and you could edit the chase cue to change the chase fade profile if you like? I understand this desk is well out of production, so I'm not expecting you to spend on any time on this really! Thanks, Kevin Edited to correct which LED fixture it was (2) and DMX base address (120). There was only this LED fixture on for the Q in question, the others were at brightness 0% [and didn't blink on].

Documenting for prosperity... Whilst programming a show the other day I set up a simple 2 step chase on a single generic channel to do a 'flicker'. I found that if I set the chase type to the snap-fade (|\) profile, it caused some LED fixtures in the rig to blink at the step change point. These fixtures weren't changed at all in the two steps. The desk was in full mode. If I set the chase profile to the snap-snap (|-|) setting I didn't get the blink. Shame really as the snap-fade setting was much better for the effect. Software is 10.12. Kevin

Leej, what approach did you use in the end (I'm interested)? Kevin

Can you tell us a bit more about what you see on the desk when you try to control the fixture? Did you build your own fixture profile (maybe you could attach to this topic)? Is the fixture assigned (yellow LED turned on in the button)? That fixture number patched to DMX 501 in the Fat Fog manual patch screen? Selected the fixture then see some attributes come up in the fixture LCDs - select Colour and see e.g. Red and Green and Blue? Dimmer at > 0%? Mode of the fixture the same as the fixture profile definition? As 501 is right up at the end for a 12 channel fixture, maybe try it down the DMX address range a bit. Give 200 a try. Kevin

Page 27 and page 30/31 of the manual: http://www.zero88.com/manuals/7340300_jestermanual_3_4.pdf Your mirror ball was an "Auxiliary". You will need to find out what DMX channel the mirror ball is connected to. My assumption is you have some sort of DMX controlled mains relay, as I wouldn't expect a mirror ball to be connected to a dimmer (if nothing else, channel preheat is usually enough to run mirror ball motors continuously...)

Replacement battery page is here: http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/546/280/replacement-battery-information 3.6v, 150mAh Varta Mempac

Looking at the 8 Nov 2006 entry on here http://zero88.com/forum/topic/3850-problems-with-demux48/ looks like you have the same problem. The problem with that one was a flat battery, so looks like the mempack needs replacing in yours. I must check ours one day before it leaks...!

On the Phantom Frog there is a tickbox to show the monitor - is that the same on Phantom Jester?

Is it a "vanilla" Jester 24/48 (i.e. not an ML or TL?). If so you'll have to map the channels of the LED fixture to individual faders since that desk does not have support for "intelligent" fixtures. You need to count up how many DMX channels you need - so how many "normal" (generic) lights on dimmers do you have (if any) and how many channels do you need to get the granularity of control you need for the LED fixtures. So the manual for the LEDJs is here: http://prolight.co.uk/images//media/LEDJ252A/LEDJ252A-um0.pdf Each LEDJ unit has either a 5 channel or 9 channel mode, so will take either 5 or 9 DMX addresses. You could "parallel" more than one of these units to keep down the channel count required. What that means is set the DMX address to the same on more than one fixture, but this means that one fader will control say the Red LED on all of those "parallel" units. If you must have individual control of every colour in every unit then you are going to eat through your 48 channel maximum capability very quickly. More so if you need the fancy features and choose to use the 9 channel mode on one or more units. You can use the Jester in either a 2-preset 24-channel setup or a 1-preset 48-channel setup. And of course you can program your show into a cue stack with 48 channels available per cue. Let us know if any of that makes sense then we can elaborate more. It would be useful if you could have a think/research you total channel needs based on what other lighting you have, how many LED units you have and what compromises you can accept on individual control of colours in a unit. And of course the Jester manual is here to have a read of: http://www.zero88.com/manuals/7340300_jestermanual_3_4.pdf

As the reboot didn't help, probably need to rule out a hardware problem. With the desk unpowered hold down F1, then power the desk keeping F1 held until the main LCD shows a test page. Press the channel flash button for channel 14 to get the button test page. Pressing buttons should now give an indication on the LCD (if I remember right!). See if pressing F2 is observed...

The only thing I can think of is to put your 'flash' lights onto a sub master and use the sub master flash button - hold button for your half a second then release. That's usually a bit easier and cleaner to do than a double tap on the GO button. Having had a read of the manual I think they are probably your two options. Submaster programme is page 13 and use in Run mode is page 24 of the manual. Kevin

The USB drive has to look like lots of floppys. You will still have the 1.44Mb size restriction implicit with the desk still thinking it's talking to a floppy drive. There is no way round this. The USB drive has two buttons to 'page' the USB into floppy sized chunks. You need to chop up the fixture library, there are instructions on the fixture download area here: http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/584/0/legacy-desk-fixture-library

"Just program exactly that". i.e Set faders for channels as required. Program (e.g. memory 1) Set faders for channels as required (it's fine that ch1, ch2 are lower values, ch3 ch4 are higher) Program (e.g. memory 2) Job done When you play back the memories, then the channels will fade to the value you programmed. It doesn't matter if these values are higher or lower than they were before, they will fade to the new level. i.e. you don't have to do anything crazy like splitting up those channels fading up to those channels fading down into separate memories - unless you really want to spilt the time at which these fades occur.

...and it was fortunately...! Good 'old Fat Frog!

Are you saying the arrow/+/- buttons on the desk don't work? Have you got a PS/2 keyboard you can plug in to use the arrow keys on that instead? I'm a bit confused whether your problem is using the keys to actually select the fixture or whether once you've loaded the fixture you have a problem. Maybe you could clarify.

Hi Keith, Thanks for that - my experience is also that you have to make some "meaningful" change in Super User to get a "Saving Show". My assumption was that on a cold boot, the "Loading Show" step was copying from Flash into RAM, but it seems it must be more complicated than this, as from my exprience with the flat battery, Flash might not have the full or latest cue stack image, and there is reliance on the image in RAM being coherent, hence requiring a good battery! With the battery replaced, all seemed well when I booted the desk last night, so hopefully the run of the show will be uneventful in terms of technical problems! Thanks, Kevin

(Caution - rambings of a techie...) My Fat Frog factory-fit battery lasted about 6 years (2006-2012), those Zero88-fit ones are awesome... The one I fitted in 2012 died this week [~2 years] in between the tech and dress rehearsals - I lost the second half of my Act 2 cues [huh? 15 pages left in the script and only 2 cues to go, what the heck is going on here.... oh... sh**!]. The date of 1/1/2999 should have awoken a few more grey cells than it did at that point... - well it was 4/1/2015 so it wasn't that far out, kinda... And this year, for the very first time, I forgot to take my box of floppys to the tech rehearsal... (and no use asking the kids in the show - "What's a flippy dusk, Kev?"). Well I always save to floppy but the desk stores the cue stack so maybe not worry this time for once... ...fortunately the wife obliged and brought the box down otherwise I'd now still be swearing and trying to replot the rest of the show from memory. And had it happened this week I'd be crying during a performance and trying to busk the last half hour of the show... (whilst also running music and sfx cues, 4 radio mics and smoke machine, it's tough in the amateur world you know!) Which brings me to a [-n academic] question - when does the desk actually copy the RAM to flash? Actually does it? OK, so sometimes you get a "Saving Show" popup (usually when you're in the middle of something!) which is when I guess it's doing just that, but clearly between me plotting cue 82 and cue 97 [probably about 1/2 hour] at the tech this data was only in RAM, and it didn't get copied to flash by the act of me saving to floppy 4 times when all was done. Maybe the cue stack doesn't get copied to Flash at all and stays in the battery (un-)backed RAM? Note to self - replace battery in or before 2017! Kevin ps I was having a play last night after having changed the battery, going into and out of Super User didn't force a show save - I didn't really want to go changing Desk Setup settings to try and force one as the desk is ready for the show starting this week...

Thanks Jon, sorry to have muddied the waters. PJ - please clarify what you are wanting to do if you want some more help. My reading of your original post just says "its a normal single memory", but as this is such a basic piece of functionality that I'm assuming you must understand to be even using the desk, I must be misunderstanding what you are wanting to do! Regards, Kevin

Hi. Can you clarify if you want to fade some channels up and some channels down *at the same time* or if you want to fade some channels, wait a moment then fade some different channels. The first is just a programmed memory (that's what a memory does, I'm sure you know that), the second would be a sequence of two memories, with the second with an Auto trigger and a Dwell time [Jon, assume you can do such things on a Jester as you can on a Frog...] ETA - Just had a look at the Jester manual, didn't see anything that said you could do Auto triggers and Dwell times... sorry, my bad. So the second option would just be two sequential memories, both started with the GO button. Kevin

I'm a Fat Frog user not a Solution user, but for 3) I'd probably: - Use a chase for the shudder, and I'd put the channels you want to dim on one submaster (or a preset), put the "profiles" on another sub (or the other preset). Create the memory as a chase, record the first step with both subs at full, record the second step with your "others" sub pulled down to 70% (leaving your "profiles" at 100%). Set the memory as a chase of say 5 loops of this, with the speed you want (remembering tungsten sources won't dim instantaneously which may limit how fast your shudder can be). - Create the next memory as a scene, with your "others" sub at 70% and the "profiles" at 100% and make this memory an auto trigger Maybe there is a more elegant way on the Solution, but that's how I'd put it together on a Frog! After programming the chase/memories you can bin the submasters and reuse them for something else, as this is just using subs as a way to get easy control over a group of channels to assemble a memory. If you're happy with tagging and tracking functionality then you could do similar, but track the "profiles" through the chase and follow-on memory instead, so if at a later rehearsal you decide that the profiles are at the wrong level then you can rebalance in an earlier cue and these levels will track through without having to reprogramme the chase and follow-on memory.

I just clarified a few words in my initial post. I just want you to be clear that just by changing the mode to Partial, everything doesn't suddenly become ok. You have to go back and programme your cues/states (memories or submasters, however you're playing this) in Partial mode, managing the tagging status of the fixture attributes to only record what you want to actually be affected by triggering the memory or submaster. Hopefully you are already familiar with the concepts of HTP (highest takes precedence) and LTP (latest takes precedence). If not, you've got a bit more learning to do. Here are a couple of articles I just googled: http://www.onstagelighting.co.uk/learn-stage-lighting/htp-vs-ltp-lighting-desk-basics-5/ http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/Highest_Takes_Precedence http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/Latest_Takes_Precedence https://www.etcconnect.com/uploadedFiles/Main_Site/Documents/Public/White_Papers/White_Paper_Control_Philosophy_revA.pdf (not everything in here is relevant/supported on the Fat Frog so don't get too heavy into this one!) If we step aside from Tracking a moment which can change things slightly, then your brightness channels (generics [on the faders] plus the brightness channels of fixtures [those managed under the 12 buttons on the right of the desk]) would use HTP, and your colour/beamshape/position channels (or attributes as I should say more correctly) of the fixtures will use a LTP philosophy. Tagging allows you to control if a new "latest" instruction is sent to the fixture when the memory/sub is triggered. (If you set Brightness: Channel in the programming mode this also extends to the generics. This would be a full-blown Tracking setup, although there are some limitations on the Fat Frog, see my own posts in this section of the forum...). Sorry if this was already clear to you, in which case you're probably well into reconstructing your programming!

If you decide to use Tracking, and you're going to run a sequential stack, you might want to change the Tracking section to "On(--)" [when you've just changed to Partial, do v (down) key, then + key]. This makes sure that for (usually early) cues, all fixtures have a known value which is tracked from "Memory 0" (which will contain fixture home values), otherwise if you for example finish programming then go back to the first memory and run, you will get an incorrect picture of any fixtures not tagged when you programmed that first memory, because those fixtures will "stay where they were" (which is the whole point of partial/tagging) - and the next day when you come in, restart the desk and start your show, they won't actually look like that! This may/hopefully force you, in the first memory, to tag all fixtures/attributes to be sure your first "stage picture" looks exactly as you want. Hope that makes some sense!

Here are some "crib sheet" labels I drew up for my Fat Frog. I couldn't upload the Excel XLS, so attached is a pdf instead, of tables you can cut out and stick on. There are 3 tables, one for below the finger wheels, one for the fixture select buttons, one for the monitor. frog_crib_sheet.pdf