kgallen

Hi, Since you've got power and some activity on the LCD your desk can't be in too bad a shape, so we should be able to get it going. Did you replace the CR2032 with a new/known good battery? http://zero88.com/forum/topic/7384-internal-memory-issue/#entry28968 Did you fiddle with any of the DIP switches when you were in there? Looking at the back of the fader PCBs, the DIP top left should be off-off-on, the DIP top right should be off-off-off. (off-down, on=up) Are the DRAM modules seated correctly on the STMAIN2 PCB? (EM7043?) You have STMAIN2 if looking at the back panel, the floppy disk is to the left of the power inlet (not next to the DMX connectors). When booting does the Wheel LCD say it's a Fat Frog? Google "zero88 fat frog" images to check which type of Frog you have. Fat Frog has 12 fixture buttons. The giveaway is also that it says "Fat Frog" on the lower left of the front panel . Power on the desk whilst holding F1 to enter the Test Mode. If you can, channel flash buttons 1 thru 14 select sets of faders and pots to test. Flash 1-8 = Faders, Flash 9-10 = Submasters, Flash 11 = other pots, Flash 13 = Wheels, Flash 14 = Buttons. Can you connect a monitor? This is needed for further debug as there are some messages that can appear on the monitor. Let us know how you get on. Kevin ps Once you get it up and running, it looks like you're on old Firmware from the 2005 date. Latest firmware is 10.12 from 2009.

Jon - another great pair of tips (don't read that too quickly!) to go into the "practical usage guide" in an index in the back of the next rev of the FLX manual

Hi Jon, .50 but not a Beta? Just checking (sorry!).

I can confirm - not "serviced" (whatever they would mean by that) and no neg output kits! I'm sure the warranty would have been a bit pointless. They looked like a cash converter outfit and more likely to put it in the bin than have the skills to fix it I would suspect...

Hi Ian, When I found the problem I thought straight away - I bet Ian would have told me to check that track! This was a unit from a well known auction site. It looks like a previous user had replaced the battery (it was an Ni-MH) but looks like they hadn't realised the old one had damaged the traces under it. This had me fooled for a while as the battery looked new (no fur jacket!) and the battery voltage was within range (3.7V) for a powered on and powered off unit. Keith got me to check the SRAM supply at its pins which was way out at a scary 10V - which would relate to the charging supply from the +15V rail via the 2k2/1N4148 - but without the battery acting as the voltage clamp. I eventually removed the battery as I wanted to check all continuities with it out of circuit and voila instantly saw the track. Buzzed it all out and realised this was the problem. I cleaned it all up thoroughly then used some mod wire to reinstate the connection. The other traces looked ok. After that we were up and running. The only annoyance is I should have got the thing cheaper as it was sold as working - well it did power up - but with the 012 error code on the display! Still all's well that ends well! Thanks, Kevin

Recording for future reference... When replacing the battery, make sure the PCB trace under the battery is intact and not corroded. Worth checking the continuity to the SRAM pin 28 from the battery positive terminal. The supply across the SRAM (pin 14 VSS, pin 28 VCC) should measure the same as VBAT. With the unit powered, if the voltage is above VBAT then suspect a break in the VBAT track. I measured nearly 10V with a good battery but this track broken. Fortunately the SRAM (and a 74HC00 NAND gate also on VBAT) survived the experience somehow. Thanks to Keith for assistance fixing one - that's another DEMUX48 rescued from the scrap heap.

As I'm here again, here are some sources for the battery: http://cpc.farnell.com/varta/3-v150h/battery-ni-mh-mempac-pcb-3-6v/dp/BT00152 http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/coin-button-rechargeable-batteries/0422393 http://uk.farnell.com/varta/55615603940/battery-nimh-tht-3-6v-150mah/dp/279353 I'm not convinced by some of the dimensions reported on the CPC site. As I'm ordering one, I'll check it and correct this entry if it turns out wrong. In the mean time, I'll press the "order" button then IanK can come along and let me know I've ordered the wrong one... ETA The CPC part above is the correct one.

Hi Arjen, I haven't swapped my floppy drive as it works fine - and to be honest I've now upgraded to an FLX so the FF doesn't really get an outing any more... :-( That BR link should suggest suitable offerings. Regards, Kevin

Hi Arjen, I'm not sure what you mean - the files themselves are some Zero88 internal binary format, with extension ".ift". The disk format should probably be "FAT16" or just "FAT". There's a bit of chatter on this link regards disk formats and SS/DD/HD sizes etc, so maybe worth a quick read and maybe trying format from the command line as with some of the examples? https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/formatting-a-1-44-mb-diskette-143429/ Probably telling you what you already know, sorry. Regards, Kevin

Hi Arjen, I can't help you really on this one, other to confirm that I used exactly the same approach with an external USB floppy drive (on XP) for my Fat Frog and had no issues. I'd have to say it was rare for me to re-format a floppy - I have a load of disks I use that probably came pre-formatted for PCs, although I know some I have wiped by reformatting using both the desk and the USB-floppy drive and I don't recall any issues. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones since I've never had any issues with the floppy drive in my FF, while others report they do. Since you have a Mambo Frog, which was one of the last in the series to be released, I'd expect your drive to be one of the later ones - early Frog users seemed to report more issues. Regards the Fixture Files - it goes without saying that this database is now much bigger than can be fitted on a floppy, so I make the assumption you have a customised cut-down version of the database! If you get nowhere with the floppy, then you might want to look at swapping out for a paged USB solution. This was discussed recently here: http://zero88.com/forum/topic/7952-changing-floppy-drive-to-usb/#entry30835 Regards, Kevin

Shame you weren't able to drop a partial 7.9.x update as a parting shot as you did with Frog(Mk1) 10.12, but understandable after 13 years... I think we got 10 years (2000-2009) of software for the Mk1 Frogs which was nice - especially as I joined the party a bit late in 2006 - as you were thinking of ramping down the range as I now realise! Do I get to at least 2028 with my FLX then? Kevin

Yea sorry, I read the OP post several times today and he does clearly say for the "first time". Stupid question from me in #4! It really was a "daft question"!

(Crikey Ed, if mine ever goes wrong, I hope it goes a bit better than that... Cwmbran is much closer to me than Brum...)

Hi Mike, So to ask a daft question, was the screen working when you first had the desk and now it's not working? Has the desk been dropped, bumped sharply etc in the meantime? Any event that you thing might have caused an internal cable to come loose etc? If you're not on the latest software can you install that - or even any other version to see if it comes to life? Have you got an external monitor and is that working? Where are you located? If needed are you close enough to make a trip to Cwmbran (near Newport in South Wales, not that far from Bristol). Ed and Jon seem to be on an extended lunch break today, as I would have expected Ed to jump on this thread pretty quickly. Might be worth a call to Zero88 offices as they will probably be able to diagnose this quickly one way or the other: Technical Support Telephone: +44 (0)1633 833101 Email: support@zero88.com

If it's new I'd get back in touch with the company who sold it to you as the first step. When you say "not working" do you mean the screen is blank or the screen displays but the touch-ness does not work? Do you know what version of software it's running? Also you could PM(*) the serial number to Jon/Keith/Ed so they can follow up with any query. Kevin (*) Actually until you've had 10 posts I don't think PM is enabled. But I'm sure Ed or Jon will be along here in a very short time...

Sounds like he's made a number of different fixture definitions for the different modes of the device. Within the fixture assignment do you not see one called "M1"?

Oh Ed, have you done half a job?! Hi Uriah, Yes unfortunately this has to be done in the PC Fixture Editor. I'm not sure if there is a better way, but it can be a bit of a drag. I usually find a PDF of the manual that contains pictures of the gobos, make a tight screen grab of each gobo image and then use these. In the Fixture Editor, you need to upload each image against the DMX range for the gobo within the "Details" tab of the Beamshape parameter that is handling the gobo channel. I hope that is enough detail for you - sorry about my terse earlier post - I was using my phone! Regards, Kevin

There is information missing from the fixture profile. In the PC fixture profile editor: Under colour, the 'special' setting needs to be set eg 'red - positive'. The gobo images have to be uploaded to the 'detail' tab in Beamshape.

If you've got a Blue Room login, then swapping the floppy for a paged USB floppy emulator has been covered a number of times. Here is one such link: http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=50532&st=60 Look for the postings by user "vinntec" or "PaulDF" who has done this change successfully. With this particular topic you will need to skip a lot of posts talking about the fixture library, so you might have to dig through it a bit. There might be other postings that don't go off topic so much. You can find others with this Google search term: "site:www.blue-room.org.uk frog floppy" https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Awww.blue-room.org.uk+frog+floppy&oq=site%3Awww.blue-room.org.uk+frog+floppy&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.12382j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Kevin

Thanks Ian. I've edited my original post above to try to avoid any future confusion!

Hi Andy, One last thing before I back out on the MCB idea, because I think you need to read the specs on the MCBs before you convince yourself the swap-out it going to achieve what you want. BS7671:2008 Fig 3.5 Type C circuit breaker to BS EN 60898 A 6A breaker will carry 8.5A indefinitely and 10A for at least 600 seconds (10 minutes). A 32A breaker will carry 45A indefinitely and 60A for 200 seconds (say 3.5 minutes). If you downgrade the channel breakers to 6A, and your unsupervised users overload each channel to 10A, then your whole-pack 32A breaker will likely fire long before any channel breaker does. Fig 3.4 Type B breakers have the same response times for these examples. I just don't want you to think that 6x6A breakers are going to keep you within the 32A pack breaker limit. 6x6A breakers are going to tolerate at least 6x8.5A forever. That combined 51A will be tolerated by a 32A breaker for 900 seconds (15minutes). ...but I am just a bloke on the web. Regards, Kevin

Having had to dig around a bit to find the fuse types for the three Alphapack versions, I'm documenting here for other users: All fuses are 6.3A, ceramic HRC fast acting, 5x20mm. Alphapack1: 5x20mm (Note: NOT 32mm as quoted in this datasheet: http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/GetAttachment/266/264) Alphapack2: 5x20mm (http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/GetAttachment/84/616) Alphapack3: 5x20mm (http://zero88.com/datasheets/Alphapack_3_Datasheet_UK_Rev2_0516.pdf) 5x20mm: RS 563-330 http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cartridge-fuses/0563330/ CPC FF02830 (SIBA 70-007-33/6.3A) http://cpc.farnell.com/siba/70-007-33-6-3a/fuse-20x5-ceramic-quick-blow-6/dp/FF02830

I'm not sure I'd do that. What if you need a 2kW channel for a sun keylight for example? You've got 32A per Betapack, which is a very common configuration in amateur venues, can you not allow the user to handle the diversity? 6A is a little bit close for pairing two 650W lanterns on one channel which I would expect to be a common requirement. You say "for safety" but I'm not sure how safety is helped much. A human can be killed by 30mA - the difference between 6A or 10A is a bit irrelevant in this respect. The only reason to derate to 6A would be if you've got say 0.75mm2 cabling rather than 1.25mm2/1.5mm2. 6A versus 10A is an overcurrent/overload limit which relates more to fire risk than human death risk.

Well that's easy enough, you fit the phase combiner bar internally and wire the Betapack with a 32A CEEFORM and some 6mm TRS. Then get yourself a number of 32A CEEFORM outlets fitted to a dedicated final circuit with 32A MCB and 30mA RCD. You then have to keep your total dimmed power consumption below 8kW! ...assuming that was the essence of your next question!

Hi Andy, I agree we're off topic - but hopefully your original question has been addressed - unless someone else wants to join in with new information of course! Regarding the frequency of inspection of test I was more thinking your circumstances might warrant a 3 monthly or 6 monthly regime if your equipment gets heavy use or is moved frequently. However I think I'm preaching to the converted as it's clear from your previous post that you're well aware of these things and on top of managing your equipment maintenance regime. I'm glad you have found a competent inspection/tester - I'd agree the second pair of knowledgeable eyes is worthwhile! Kevin