kgallen

Reg, Can you post your profile file - at least that gives us a starting point, and when you get it back you can see how it was adjusted. Kevin

I'd email Keith for a quicker reply: KeithRogers@eaton.com Or if not, this guy can probably help (and if he can't I'll eat my hat; fortunately I don't have a hat). ian@centraltheatresupplies.co.uk

"fiddling" - that was unfair of me! That's what we do! I think in conclusion it's the use of HOME that is causing that unintended colour change, rather than any "fiddling". It's more usual that the fixture HOME is defined as Brightness=100% R=G=B=255 A=W=0, certainly in Zero88-written fixtures. One of the main uses of HOME is to locate a fixture in the rig: "Select Fixture-HOME - oh, it's that one!" which is the reason for the above convention. Of course you can have HOME as you like, but as above, resisting the tempting hazard of using it to seemingly "clear out" the fixtures from the cue :-) Give PARTIAL another go. It's not really of much use if you only have HTP generics in your rig, but with fixtures you may well find some value. Just don't try it out during a lighting plotting session - do it some other time when you can have a play in the quiet and you can scratch your head a lot. You will need the original manual plus all of the Release Notes as there were big changes from 10.4. The Release Notes have quite a bit of description on Partial/Tracking. http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/de/Knowledgebase/Article/View/56/256/frog-range-operating-software-release-1012 All the best! (From one enthusiastic amateur to another!) Regards, Kevin

Yes the white fade to red is expected, see my step 7) explanation. I did this to show what would happen on your first cue because the hidden cue 0 has fixtures at their HOME value, which is defined in the fixture definition and would usually be R=G=B=255 which gives RGB white. The beauty with LEDs is you can set the colour to snap, as I'd advise for all your cue 1s and they will be at that colour instantaneously unlike the colour scrollers of old. When I get on the computer I'll take a look at your show files. Good news anyway! Update: In your show07, go to cue 0 (--), then press Outputs (and I'm assuming you have an external monitor or can scroll the LCD to see the info). If you select your fixtures one at a time you can see the home values which for your fixtures seem to set every LED to max - R,G,B (and W and A where on the fixture) to 255. So to avoid your first cue having the chance of seeing this colour before the colour in the cue, either create a cue 1 which initialises the colours (and Brightness=0), or set the colour to Snap (even if on subsequent cues you want Colour=Fade to get a colour crossfade). Having the initial cue is arguably marginally better as LTP attributes (of which Colour is an example) get triggered around 5% Brightness($), so there is a slim chance that you will get a very brief glimpse of the home colour if 5% Brightness happens to be a noticable non-dark intensity for your fixtures (&). In truth you probably don't get the LEDs coming on in this type of "cheapish" fixture until above this level so you'll probably get away with it. ($) LTP Trigger Level seems to be configurable for Submasters, default=5% but doesn't seem to be for Memories. (&) This would also be true for cue-to-cue although I must admit I've never really seen issues with colour "bleed" into a subsequent cue, so I am over-dramatising this a bit. However at least you're aware of it! Update (2): - On your show06, GO on cue 29 then select the Outputs window and select Fixture 5. In this cue, the fixture is at Brightness=25% and is R=255,W=127, so a pale red. - Now press GO. - You can see the fixture Brightness fade to 0% but also the RGBW fade to 255, so you will see the fixture crossfade colour from red to RGB-white as it dims from 25% to 0%. - Unless this was an intended colour change, this is a programming error, since you either hit HOME for your selected fixtures (@) before taking the Brightness to 0% or you also "fiddled" with colour, with the thought that since the fixture would be @0% it didn't matter what the underlying colour programming was [which it won't once the fixture has got to 0% ]. As a quick fix for your show you could set the LTP fade for the problem cues to something much longer than the Brightness fade time. - In FULL programming mode, the desk records the value of every attribute (Brightness, Colour, Beamshape, Position) for every fixture in each cue. - If you move to PARTIAL programming, not only will you pull your hair out, but after you've gone bald you'll understand the power of PARTIAL in only recording the things you actually want to change in a cue (or with an overlayed Submaster). Then you'll realise you can't take the stress and will live with the limitations (but the certainty) and move back to FULL mode..... (or you'll go mad and go out and buy an FLX... [cough] ). Anyway I hope all that has helped you understand what's going on. Oh, and welcome to the Forum (and Fat Frog)! Feel free to drop another post (or add to this one) if you need any more help. (@) it's just dawned on me your fixture HOME also has Brightness=0% so my guess is you've been using the HOME button during programming as a quick way to turn off the fixtures - but in the process also configuring their colour to white.

Hi Tim, Your setup looks fine. So assuming you are just running cues through from the memory stack, then the only way I can see the LEDs going white is that they are white in the incoming cue. Could you start afresh and program a sequence of two cues: 0) Put the playback master fader to 0. 1) Select button for LED fixture. Set Brightness to full and set Colour to red. 2) Program (memory 1) 3) Select that same LED again and only change the Brightness to 0. 4) Program (memory 2) 5) Select the same LED again and set Colour to green but also bring the Brightness to 0. FIXBR in the bottom banner of an external monitor should show --. 6) Put the playback master at full and run memory 0 by going back one from memory 1 and then pressing GO 7) GO to run memory 1. You should see the LED fade up and also fade to red from its HOME value, which would normally be RGB white. You should not see the green left behind from step 5) above. 8) GO to run memory 2. The LED should just fade out, but not change colour. To check this for sure, set the colour to S (snap). If this works as above (and I've just written this not tested it, sorry!) then maybe there is a programming error in your original cue stack? You could also look in the Outputs window with the LED fixture selected as you move through the cue stack above. You could also upload your showfile here (your original one plus that from above) so I can take a look on my desk or PhantomFrog. Regards, Kevin

If they are changing colour then they must be programmed as white in the incoming Cue. You might also want to change the colour transition from snap to fade. In your memories window there is a column with C at the top, probably with a S in the line of your incoming cue. Use the movement keys to change this to F. I used some earlier versions of your fixtures with my Fat Frog and didn't have this change to white issue. Also are you programming in Full or Partial mode? Also worth confirming what software you are on. The latest is 10.12. There are no bugs related to your report but we'll know what functionality your desk should have. Let me know how you get on. Kevin

Hi Amy, See attached. I've set ch 3 and 4 as Beamshape parameters so you can have a play to see what they do. As I think this is for your Illusion, I've set wheels for each C/B parameter. Do you know about the Fixture Editor tools? Load this one up and have a look, then you'll be able to create any new ones you need really easily. http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/de/Knowledgebase/Article/View/49/0/zero-88-fixture-tools---version-26 Good luck! Kevin partypar7ch.ift

I was working through the 7.9.1 User Manual recently released and thought I'd give the effects engine another try with some RGBW/RGBAW LED fixtures, from a fresh install of 7.9.1. I triggered the Effects window "Auto generate palettes" and was playing with the Step-On Red palette. Playing with this "live". I got the red come on, then it went blue then magenta then back to red which faded out. I looked in the DMX output window and the red was at 128, then the blue came on at 68 then went to 1. The intensity channel was doing the step on then fade out as expected. Nope, didn't solve it, no change (I used Shift+Z to enter Blind, then Z to exit). Nope, didn't solve it either. In fact made it worse. I recorded to PB1 then Cleared down the programmer. Then pushed up PB1 fader. Effect started but the garbage states (blue, magenta) were even more pronounced. I'm going to try again now, but I'm sorry my conclusions so far from various playing with RGB fixtures and the Effects engine is that it is unusable and not fit for purpose. As from my posts in various threads where I've tried to get something sensible out of it, I've not managed to achieve anything that behaves as documented and that would be vaguely useful or usable in a show I'm glad you're rewriting it, the current one just doesn't work on FLX. Kevin

Sounds like the Playback setup, although it's surprising the default behaviour is not like a sub! Can't remember exactly (will check the manual in a mo) but might be Setup+Button. Edit: http://www.zero88.com/manuals/flx-user-manual-version-1.pdf Yes it's Setup+Button. p23 General tab, select Fader Function=HTP Master (should be the default!) p25 Raise/Lower Tab, Trigger on Raise=Enabled, Release on Lower=Enabled (should be the default!) Trigger/Release level should be OK at 5% and Raise/Lower time should be 0 to follow the fader. Back on the General tab, under Fader Controls... you could enable Colour if you want the fader to cross fade the colour as well as the intensity. Also on General, maybe Button Function needs to be Flash (and not e.g. Go) Please let us know what works! Kevin

Hi Jon, Sure, makes sense.... but it does mean the folks who are actually helping you out with this stuff don't know the new releases exist... Thanks, Kevin

The User Manual is published here: http://www.zero88.com/manuals/flx-user-manual-version-1.pdf Jon - would be good if you could note this in the Forum - I rarely look on the product pages, it's always the forum, so I'm still using the draft versions. I only know about the release from your follow up post on Blueroom after I'd pointed the user at the version 1 draft. The same happened the other month with 7.9 software release. Thanks, Kevin

Jon - it's "partly" because we've been plotting against you on the quiet! As you know I've also discussed the effects engine with you (certainly in respect of RGB) and also posted in other related topics here. However, JW, and Lufferov in http://zero88.com/forum/topic/7770-understanding-effect-waveforms/ have captured the details in a much clearer and complete form than I ever have/could! So just to add support to JW above with his observations and suggestions and also to Lufferov's post, where I see you've already noted that you're working on a new interface to this aspect of FLX, which is great news. Regards, Kevin Yes please and noting I don't have pins for fingers so some slightly more touchable button areas would also be nice - and also being able to map the screen to the external monitor where the mouse could be used!

Hi Jon, It wasn't in a cue stack I was just playing with it as per your screen shots (from a fresh install of 7.9.1RC, patch one RGBAW fixture and have a fiddle). However I'll try and get round to doing the same but capturing as cues and seeing if that changes anything and get you a showfile. Regards, Kevin

I'm just trying Jon's waveform above with a RGBAW fixture... (I realise only RGB is used). So it mostly works but I get a fade to black between green and blue, as in fade up to blue-fade into red-fade into green-fade to black- then back to fade up to blue. Where did the fade to black come from? Using the 0/33/66 offset it surely should fade green into blue. Hence I see magenta and yellow but not cyan. I changed the sine on all to step and I get blue-magenta-brief flash of white then yellow-green-short off-back to blue. This can't be right! All steps do change duration with speed but the brief white and short off aren't as long as the 'correct' colour steps. Using 7.9.1RC on FLX. Kevin

I had cause to use MAC250s with my FLX. I patched the fixtures from the profile built into ZerOS7.9 but found there were errors in the Prism attribute details. I've corrected this in the attached replacement profiles. The error in the fixture profile was due to an error in the MAC250 manual - the detailed description for Prism had the error, whereas the DMX map in the back of the manual documented the behaviour seen with the actual MAC250 (latest 1.4 firmware). Kevin mac250.ift

Here you go. You wanted it ASAP so I've only done the 21ch profile and not added gobo pictures, but other details are all coded. Regards, Kevin adj_fs3z.ift

Thanks Jon I'll have a good read! Kevin

[ that's the best I can do, this Forum doesn't have rolling-around-on-the-floor-laughing smiley]

What? That's what he looked like when I was in Cwmbran last October!

I would hope not, that wouldn't be useful! It would need to be on a per-fixture instance basis. Maybe the OP could clarify exactly what is happening and what the settings are. This function has been available on many Zero88 consoles so I'd expect Jon or Keith to spot an issue like this pretty early on.

I think there is some middle ground here. This is such a complex product it just must have a manual for users to have the vaguest chance of using it, however intuitive the developers might think it is. As we're discussing, a paper based manual is probably impractical due to the rate and extent of changes to the platform, and as users we like these enhancements. Documentation that is up to date is always a challenge, particularly for a small company. Maybe Jon would consider a 'softer' form of manual, maybe published and maintained online rather than on paper. Maybe such a format would be easier to maintain and keep up to date with software changes, but at the end of the day is going to take some effort and commitment to get together. The console has been out for well over 18 months now. An official complete manual in whatever form is really a reasonable expectation by now before we really do scare off new customers for an excellent product, and that will be bad for all of us. Just my 2p worth...

Hi Emrys, Just use Load File as if you were reloading a show. Kevin

A quick answer before Jon gives us a better more complete explanation (which will certainly be useful for me too): Smart Tag is the desk working out what fixture parameters have changed since the last cue/current state in order to only record the changes. Advanced Tracking requires the user to control the fixture parameter "tag state" manually thus having total control over what is and what is not recorded in the cue. ...that's how I understand it anyway! Kevin

I think I'd try again in a new set of PBs as the programming on PB21-23 looks really confusing. If you are wanting to use your 3 PBs to mix R and G and B freely then you'll need to be in one of the Teacking modes and make sure only the required colour parameter is touched before hitting Record. Kevin

This page http://www.zero88.com/software/index.shtml and http://www.zero88.com/software/zeros/ seem to list 7.9 for FLX only so looks like you're correct on x86/OrbXF. I didn't actually realise for a while that 7.9 was out - and only then because the last beta 7.8.5.33 (or whatever it was) got locked from access, although 7.8.5.33 was for OrbXF in addition to FLX! Kevin